Fine, caution or both?

[Osinjak]

Mate of mine (yes, really) was fined £80 in 2007 under Sect 127 of the Communications Act for sending a silly but aggressive text message to someone when he was absolutely hammered. Didn't remember sending it until he got a call from plod to 'please come down to the station for a chat.' Did exactly that and was subsequently fined and sent away. He's now leaving his current employer for a new job outside where he has to do a basic DBS check and isn't sure whether he needs to declare it or not. He had to declare it for his current vetting (ironically some levels above DBS) and it hasn't affected him in the slightest. He's also lost the ticket some years ago so can't remember what the thing was whether it was a simple fine, caution, conviction for a combination of all three.

I actually remember the situation quite well, he was hugely distressed about it at the time the silly boy. Don't drink and text...

[Dr Jekyll]

It won't have been a fine AND a caution, so it's safe to say it's a conviction.

It is possible to ask the police what details they have about you, some kind of FOI request I think. A colleague of mine who had a juvenile caution did this and found the incident had dropped off the system so he never bothered to declare it and there was never any come back.

His theory was that either they didn't bother to transfer old trivial stuff to the new computer system, or that what he was told was a formal caution was merely an informal rollocking. So probably won't apply to your mate.

[Osinjak]

Cheers. He's having a mild flap about it and is stuck with his in-laws on a European break so can't get in touch with the police station where he was fined just yet. Well he says he can't, I think it's more of case of 'won't' just in case he's overheard etc.

[Bigends]

It looks like he wsas issued with a PND for nuisance communications offence by the Police. These are not recorded as a crime but are recorded on PNC - not as a conviction but an admission of guilt.

This from the NACRO website

I received a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) or a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND). Will this show up on my DBS certificate?

No. A Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) and a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND) are on-the-spot fines issued by the police for very minor offences. If you pay an FPN or PND within the specified time-limit, all liability for the offence is discharged and the offence does not form part of your criminal record.

However have a read of this

https://www.the-record.org.uk/unlock-people-with-c...

[Osinjak]

Bigends said:

It looks like he wsas issued with a PND for nuisance communications offence by the Police. These are not recorded as a crime but are recorded on PNC - not as a conviction but an admission of guilt.

This from the NACRO website

I received a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) or a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND). Will this show up on my DBS certificate?

No. A Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) and a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND) are on-the-spot fines issued by the police for very minor offences. If you pay an FPN or PND within the specified time-limit, all liability for the offence is discharged and the offence does not form part of your criminal record.

However have a read of this

https://www.the-record.org.uk/unlock-people-with-c...

Sobering reading, kid gets slapped with a fine for arsing about and ends up taking her own life later on down the line? Sheesh.

Spending some time scratching around and found a document online that seems to say that anything over 11 years old is removed unless it's proper naughty.

https://www.nacro.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...

Edited by Osinjak on Sunday 9th August 21:39

[Bigends]

Osinjak said:

Bigends said:

It looks like he wsas issued with a PND for nuisance communications offence by the Police. These are not recorded as a crime but are recorded on PNC - not as a conviction but an admission of guilt.

This from the NACRO website

I received a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) or a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND). Will this show up on my DBS certificate?

No. A Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) and a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND) are on-the-spot fines issued by the police for very minor offences. If you pay an FPN or PND within the specified time-limit, all liability for the offence is discharged and the offence does not form part of your criminal record.

However have a read of this

https://www.the-record.org.uk/unlock-people-with-c...

Sobering reading, kid gets slapped with a fine for arsing about and ends up taking her own life later on down the line? Sheesh.

Spending some time scratching around and found a document online that seems to say that anything over 11 years old is removed unless it's proper naughty.

https://www.nacro.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...

Edited by Osinjak on Sunday 9th August 21:39

Shows the consequences in being talked into what seems to be an easy, consequence free way out of custody.

[TheDrownedApe]

OH was done for ABH at 18 yo as she had a scuffle with another woman but prosecuted. She is now 47 and works as a teacher. Every time she changes jobs and they conduct a search it comes up and she has to explain what happened.

So embarrassing for her and, although we can't prove it, probably held her back in a couple of jobs.

[KevinCamaroSS]

TheDrownedApe said:

OH was done for ABH at 18 yo as she had a scuffle with another woman but prosecuted. She is now 47 and works as a teacher. Every time she changes jobs and they conduct a search it comes up and she has to explain what happened.

So embarrassing for her and, although we can't prove it, probably held her back in a couple of jobs.

Did she receive a sentence? If not, this should have been 'filtered' off by now.

[anonymous-user]

Bigends said:

Osinjak said:

Bigends said:

It looks like he wsas issued with a PND for nuisance communications offence by the Police. These are not recorded as a crime but are recorded on PNC - not as a conviction but an admission of guilt.

This from the NACRO website

I received a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) or a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND). Will this show up on my DBS certificate?

No. A Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) and a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND) are on-the-spot fines issued by the police for very minor offences. If you pay an FPN or PND within the specified time-limit, all liability for the offence is discharged and the offence does not form part of your criminal record.

However have a read of this

https://www.the-record.org.uk/unlock-people-with-c...

Sobering reading, kid gets slapped with a fine for arsing about and ends up taking her own life later on down the line? Sheesh.

Spending some time scratching around and found a document online that seems to say that anything over 11 years old is removed unless it's proper naughty.

https://www.nacro.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...

Edited by Osinjak on Sunday 9th August 21:39

Shows the consequences in being talked into what seems to be an easy, consequence free way out of custody.

If it's even true. It's an uncorroborated, sanitised story.

article said:

Her punishment was no mere slap on the wrist; it was a death sentence.

Somewhat melodramatic.

KevinCamaroSS said:

TheDrownedApe said:

OH was done for ABH at 18 yo as she had a scuffle with another woman but prosecuted. She is now 47 and works as a teacher. Every time she changes jobs and they conduct a search it comes up and she has to explain what happened.

So embarrassing for her and, although we can't prove it, probably held her back in a couple of jobs.

Did she receive a sentence? If not, this should have been 'filtered' off by now.

Won't being being a teacher result in an enhanced check which will always show it?

[bigandclever]

Your mate can do his own basic DBS check and see what comes up. Then he knows what to declare. Though of course in a proper check they already know what you should be declaring and are checking you’re honest enough to declare it.

https://www.gov.uk/request-copy-criminal-record

[R1 Dave]

Surely the best advice is to just declare it? Better to be seen to be honest than found to be the opposite? I cant imagine even a conviction for malicious communications would make much difference, especially once the nature of the incident is explained?

[NewUsername]

It wont appear on a DBS or Enhanced DBS if it was 2007, I was vetted by the home office in 2015 and had had similar in 2008, nothing appeared in any of the checks although I had disclosed it anyway)

[Osinjak]

R1 Dave said:

Surely the best advice is to just declare it? Better to be seen to be honest than found to be the opposite? I cant imagine even a conviction for malicious communications would make much difference, especially once the nature of the incident is explained?

But if you don't have to, why should you? I've been vetted and the level of scrutiny that I've been subjected to is bonkers. It's not unpleasant, it's just intrusive and the philosophy is 'tell them everything' even if you like shagging goats, tell them. It's only when you don't mention it that it becomes tricky. For DBS, the law (is it the law?) says you don't have to if it's on the filtered list and has passed a certain point in time.