Disjointed police force
Discussion
All the same force albeit covered by different stations.
Small hours of Wed am no plates stolen from car on drive
11am reported to police
7pm officer arrives on doorstep, plates had been used for car crime in neighbouring village 2.45am about 5 miles away. Officer didn't know we'd reported it that morning.
4pm Sunday, police phone re report, "your number plates have not been used in crime anywhere in the country"
Me:yes they have car, crime in neighbouring village stuck to a white BMW/RS3 (depends if you believe officer/ANPR or village Facebook site)
Officer on phone, "oh well you seem to know more than me" (I feel sorry for the poor bloke, must have felt like a right dick)
Don't they use databases or just rely on information they write on A4 pads?
No wonder crims feel safe.
Small hours of Wed am no plates stolen from car on drive
11am reported to police
7pm officer arrives on doorstep, plates had been used for car crime in neighbouring village 2.45am about 5 miles away. Officer didn't know we'd reported it that morning.
4pm Sunday, police phone re report, "your number plates have not been used in crime anywhere in the country"
Me:yes they have car, crime in neighbouring village stuck to a white BMW/RS3 (depends if you believe officer/ANPR or village Facebook site)
Officer on phone, "oh well you seem to know more than me" (I feel sorry for the poor bloke, must have felt like a right dick)
Don't they use databases or just rely on information they write on A4 pads?
No wonder crims feel safe.
Try living where I do - literally right on the Lancs/Greater Manchester border. There is a gate in my back fence that opens onto a little lane. That lane is in Lancashire. I live in Gtr MC.
From experience there appears to be no interaction at all between the two forces - it smacks of the old “crossing the state line” in US films. Back in 2014 there was a big rash of motorbike thefts (including mine) - I attended a big meeting with the Lancashire police (they’re actually more “local”) and they dIsn’t have any idea about the thefts - obviously the same gang - over the border.
Outrageous- I’m talking 100+ in a 30 - speeding is also rife. Police don’t come here I’m assuming because it’s the border.
From experience there appears to be no interaction at all between the two forces - it smacks of the old “crossing the state line” in US films. Back in 2014 there was a big rash of motorbike thefts (including mine) - I attended a big meeting with the Lancashire police (they’re actually more “local”) and they dIsn’t have any idea about the thefts - obviously the same gang - over the border.
Outrageous- I’m talking 100+ in a 30 - speeding is also rife. Police don’t come here I’m assuming because it’s the border.
I have had limited dealings with them (generally when something of mine has been stolen) and I agree they are utterly useless.
You can never get hold of the Cop dealing with your case - no one knows when they are next on shift or if they're on holiday or if anything has happened, if there is any paperwork, it's not up to date.
If something happens near a force border you're doubly screwed - I live 100m inside a force area, you'd think it was a different country !
(Edit - must type faster)
You can never get hold of the Cop dealing with your case - no one knows when they are next on shift or if they're on holiday or if anything has happened, if there is any paperwork, it's not up to date.
If something happens near a force border you're doubly screwed - I live 100m inside a force area, you'd think it was a different country !
(Edit - must type faster)
Received a PCN this week, vehicle in the photo obviously on cloned plates. Called the the Police non emergency number & was given a reference number but I had to wait a couple of minutes for it while the operator was putting an Information report on the PNC.
Couple of weeks back a group of youths were attacking 2 lads in the street. Called 999 & within 3 minutes there was a personnel carrier with 6 Police officers jumping out of it in the street & two other Police cars arrived shortly afterwards.
YMMV.
Couple of weeks back a group of youths were attacking 2 lads in the street. Called 999 & within 3 minutes there was a personnel carrier with 6 Police officers jumping out of it in the street & two other Police cars arrived shortly afterwards.
YMMV.
If Von's post shows the Force's view - there's your problem - they don't accept it.
I've had maybe 10 dealings with theft in 3 forces over 20 years - all were shockingly poor not just the result but the piss poor way they communicated or rather didn't .
They didn't log ANY of the information when my jetski was stolen, just "shed theft" meaning when they found it - by accident - they almost destroyed it, luckily prevented by my phone call as I needed to update my insurers.
They then tried to charge me 30 days storage despite not telling me they had it !
I've had maybe 10 dealings with theft in 3 forces over 20 years - all were shockingly poor not just the result but the piss poor way they communicated or rather didn't .
They didn't log ANY of the information when my jetski was stolen, just "shed theft" meaning when they found it - by accident - they almost destroyed it, luckily prevented by my phone call as I needed to update my insurers.
They then tried to charge me 30 days storage despite not telling me they had it !
V8RX7 said:
If Von's post shows the Force's view - there's your problem - they don't accept it.
I've had maybe 10 dealings with theft in 3 forces over 20 years - all were shockingly poor not just the result but the piss poor way they communicated or rather didn't .
They didn't log ANY of the information when my jetski was stolen, just "shed theft" meaning when they found it - by accident - they almost destroyed it, luckily prevented by my phone call as I needed to update my insurers.
They then tried to charge me 30 days storage despite not telling me they had it !
Von's post isn't the force's view, but it does offer some balance.I've had maybe 10 dealings with theft in 3 forces over 20 years - all were shockingly poor not just the result but the piss poor way they communicated or rather didn't .
They didn't log ANY of the information when my jetski was stolen, just "shed theft" meaning when they found it - by accident - they almost destroyed it, luckily prevented by my phone call as I needed to update my insurers.
They then tried to charge me 30 days storage despite not telling me they had it !
The service you receive may vary depending on many factors, but that's also true of the NHS, Postal service, public transport etc etc.
I got burgled last year while I was out. Got home to find the Police in attendance (they had been called by a neighbour who disturbed them) I was able to give a desciption of items i knew had gone. 1 Hour later, I had another Police visit telling me they had collared the thieves trying to hand over the stuff at the local "pawn" shop. Although it did then take about 6 months to get the gear back
vonhosen said:
Von's post isn't the force's view, but it does offer some balance.
The service you receive may vary depending on many factors, but that's also true of the NHS, Postal service, public transport etc etc
I know you're not an official spokesperson but you must be aware that what three of us have said is - at least frequently - true.The service you receive may vary depending on many factors, but that's also true of the NHS, Postal service, public transport etc etc
NHS - approx 95% good
Post Office - 99% good
Police - there hasn't been a good either result nor communication - I'm not anti police, I seriously thought about joining up
When it comes to police, on all but one occasion where I’ve had dealings with my local force (Police Scotland), they’ve been great.
A dangerous driving incident I reported was dealt with inside of 24 hours from complaint to officers visiting/ticketing the dangerous driver.
An assault I reported (I overheard it happen while on the phone to a friend back home, while I was in London), was logged by the Met, passed to Police Scotland and officers on site within 3 minutes of the end of the call.
I expect the regional forces in England still have an issue with sharing intelligence, as they all have individual I.T teams, many different systems for similar tasks, different procurement teams, different suppliers etc.
Until central government centralise these functions, the forces will continue to work separately and the issues described above will remain common.
A dangerous driving incident I reported was dealt with inside of 24 hours from complaint to officers visiting/ticketing the dangerous driver.
An assault I reported (I overheard it happen while on the phone to a friend back home, while I was in London), was logged by the Met, passed to Police Scotland and officers on site within 3 minutes of the end of the call.
I expect the regional forces in England still have an issue with sharing intelligence, as they all have individual I.T teams, many different systems for similar tasks, different procurement teams, different suppliers etc.
Until central government centralise these functions, the forces will continue to work separately and the issues described above will remain common.
The same station seems unable to share information in my experience. Our neighbour calls the Police out on a very regular basis for various made up excuses. Every time a different officer attends as though they have never been there before and ask us the same questions every time.
Perfect example was when they came out a couple of hours after officers from the same station had attended her previous call. It was only on viewing our CCTV and seeing his mates that he called in to check.
Perfect example was when they came out a couple of hours after officers from the same station had attended her previous call. It was only on viewing our CCTV and seeing his mates that he called in to check.
About fifteen years ago I was involved in a judicial review of a Coroner after two teenage scrotes who had stolen a couple of hotbox Vectras were killed by crashing into a rolling road block in the Mersey Tunnel. The Merseyside Police who were in pursuit, and the separate Mersey Tunnel Police who set up the rolling road block, could not talk to one another on their radios. OK, the scrotes were scrotes, and they chose to do the blag and drive at over 100 mph through the tunnel, but they could have been caught alive if the two police forces had been better co-ordinated.
PositronicRay said:
Life in the force must be frustrating, information is power.
This is how the Yorkshire ripper evaded justice for so long, in the IT age no excuse.
When my force still has the same computer system as when I started 23.5 years ago it is a little bit of an excuse. This is how the Yorkshire ripper evaded justice for so long, in the IT age no excuse.
It was the best in the country then apparently, now it’s a bit like using ceefax
Breadvan72 said:
About fifteen years ago I was involved in a judicial review of a Coroner after two teenage scrotes who had stolen a couple of hotbox Vectras were killed by crashing into a rolling road block in the Mersey Tunnel. The Merseyside Police who were in pursuit, and the separate Mersey Tunnel Police who set up the rolling road block, could not talk to one another on their radios. OK, the scrotes were scrotes, and they chose to do the blag and drive at over 100 mph through the tunnel, but they could have been caught alive if the two police forces had been better co-ordinated.
i call that a result.....About 25 years ago I did jury service, 3 trials in in the two weeks nothing fancy just ordinary crime. Midway through the second case about an assault on a taxi driver it became clear no one had done any forensic on the car, it had been dumped in a back lane somewhere near Bury right on the boarder between two areas. The jury was dismissed first thing the following morning, although I doubt that incident was the reason.
ED209 said:
When my force still has the same computer system as when I started 23.5 years ago it is a little bit of an excuse.
It was the best in the country then apparently, now it’s a bit like using ceefax
I was in comms for a while.It was the best in the country then apparently, now it’s a bit like using ceefax
Budget was a problem even then, this in the middle 90s, before your new system was installed. We could all come up with great ideas for greater efficiency, which would have the benefit of massive savings, but the money couldn't be found. It was the same with process unit. Everyone and their dog knew that an integrated system, sort of CSS, where a repeated entry only had to be made once, would have saved money and massive amounts of time. But there was no money for such investment in software.
The idea of police forces being able to communicate with other systems, such as non-Home Office forces, fire, ambulance and coast guard, was obviously what everyone wanted, but the government’s willingness to fund it was, to say the least, not overwhelming. The ambulance service needed something different to the police requirements, which was different to the fire service’s. No one needed the CG to be on the system, until, of course, a three-masted yacht, with 50-odd children on board, loses power in a force 8, and the police are not aware for 40 minutes.
Everyone has an answer to the needs and failings of the police service, apart from the most important one – how to pay for the changes that the police themselves desire.
Answers on a postcard, please. And postcards are preferred as there’s no one to read emails.
And don’t forget to include ways to ensure the security of data. Especially with regards to the legal constraints.
sassanach0 said:
i call that a result.....
I bet you don't really. Death sentences for fourteen year old car thieves are a bit too Uzbekistan. The kids were scrotes from scrote families, but they were still just kids. Bad police comms meant that any possibility of turning those kids away from the scrote life was lost. I add that I acted for one of the two police forces in the case, not the scrote families, but although I did not sympathise with what the boys did, and recognised that the boys brought on their own deaths by reckless driving, they were still only kids. PositronicRay said:
Life in the force must be frustrating, information is power.
This is how the Yorkshire ripper evaded justice for so long, in the IT age no excuse.
There's a fascinating series on BBC iPlayer on Shipman. Well worth taking the three hours to view.This is how the Yorkshire ripper evaded justice for so long, in the IT age no excuse.
The is no simple, straightforward reason that he was allowed to continue murdering for so long. There were problems with systems all along the terrible trail of carnage of innocents.
There was a singular failure; people - that's everyone on all sides - trusted doctors. Ask yourself why a convicted druggie, who stole opiates from patients he groomed, was was allowed to continue as a doctor. It was a failure of systems. And that was the start of it.
The fact that most, but by no means all, given the death of the 11-year-old at his hands early on, were old and therefore of little consequence (see the Covid thread for details) was a factor. However, it was a failure of us all.
Blaming a single aspect is opting out.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff