London finchley road junction
Discussion
One of my regular routes with pupils. Yes, you’re ok. No, there aren’t repeaters. It’s one of those junctions that the only way to decide to make the turn is to observe oncoming traffic stopping. Absent other information, continue...
Once you’ve entered that junction, you have to exit. If you didn’t, it becomes a mess.
There’s a few f
ked up junctions on Finchley Road.
Once you’ve entered that junction, you have to exit. If you didn’t, it becomes a mess.
There’s a few f
ked up junctions on Finchley Road.Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 7th November 16:55
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 7th November 16:57
The right turn down into West Hampstead?
I assume you had to stop because of the risk of your trailer swinging out into the car close to your left?
It’s dog eat dog at that junction and as you say, once you’re past the first right hand turn light there’s nothing to tell you whether they’ve gone red but then you couldn’t stop there given the stuff that will then be coming down from the Heath to the left.
I assume you had to stop because of the risk of your trailer swinging out into the car close to your left?
It’s dog eat dog at that junction and as you say, once you’re past the first right hand turn light there’s nothing to tell you whether they’ve gone red but then you couldn’t stop there given the stuff that will then be coming down from the Heath to the left.
DonkeyApple said:
The right turn down into West Hampstead?
I assume you had to stop because of the risk of your trailer swinging out into the car close to your left?
It’s dog eat dog at that junction and as you say, once you’re past the first right hand turn light there’s nothing to tell you whether they’ve gone red but then you couldn’t stop there given the stuff that will then be coming down from the Heath to the left.
It’s a pig of a junction.I assume you had to stop because of the risk of your trailer swinging out into the car close to your left?
It’s dog eat dog at that junction and as you say, once you’re past the first right hand turn light there’s nothing to tell you whether they’ve gone red but then you couldn’t stop there given the stuff that will then be coming down from the Heath to the left.
I Teach my pupils not just the simple ones.
I wish other driving instructors did the same. Man for himself, basically. You won’t find that in the DVSA guide to teaching learners! Lol
DonkeyApple said:
The right turn down into West Hampstead?
I assume you had to stop because of the risk of your trailer swinging out into the car close to your left?
It’s dog eat dog at that junction and as you say, once you’re past the first right hand turn light there’s nothing to tell you whether they’ve gone red but then you couldn’t stop there give the stuff that will then be coming down from the Heath to the left.
Yes it Is that turn, and no it's more of the fact that the other drivers lane discipline was shocking, he was slowly creeping his way onto my lane if you get what I'm saying, I would have clipped him if I didnt slam my breaks.I assume you had to stop because of the risk of your trailer swinging out into the car close to your left?
It’s dog eat dog at that junction and as you say, once you’re past the first right hand turn light there’s nothing to tell you whether they’ve gone red but then you couldn’t stop there give the stuff that will then be coming down from the Heath to the left.
TVR1 said:
It’s a pig of a junction.
I Teach my pupils not just the simple ones.
I wish other driving instructors did the same. Man for himself, basically. You won’t find that in the DVSA guide to teaching learners! Lol
I grew up there and learnt to drive in my father’s XJ6 around that junction, down to St James’ and back!!! I Teach my pupils not just the simple ones.
I wish other driving instructors did the same. Man for himself, basically. You won’t find that in the DVSA guide to teaching learners! Lol
The real problem there these days is that half the people
Going straight on just carve between the two lanes at will. Until recently though, the bus lane was your empty, private lane all the way down, which really upset some people who hadn’t bothered to read the lane times.
DonkeyApple said:
TVR1 said:
It’s a pig of a junction.
I Teach my pupils not just the simple ones.
I wish other driving instructors did the same. Man for himself, basically. You won’t find that in the DVSA guide to teaching learners! Lol
Don’t get me started on bus lanes!I Teach my pupils not just the simple ones.
I wish other driving instructors did the same. Man for himself, basically. You won’t find that in the DVSA guide to teaching learners! Lol
You can’t imagine the abuse I get when the roof sign is on...
I grew up there and learnt to drive in my father’s XJ6 around that junction, down to St James’ and back!!!
The real problem there these days is that half the people
Going straight on just carve between the two lanes at will. Until recently though, the bus lane was your empty, private lane all the way down, which really upset some people who hadn’t bothered to read the lane times.
‘Call yourself a driving instructor?’
Usual response when the sheep can’t see.
Best one was a cock who phoned the number on the roof sign to complain that I didn’t move ‘Cos he’d miscalculated entering a yellow box junction.
I answered.
Being able to read those little signs was the key to slashing A to B times. Happy days.
Despite learning to drive round there I’m still amazed by the kids who have to do it today. Absolute batismnof fire but the end result is being able to be chilled in practically any environment on the planet. Certainly helped when driving in various cities in Asia!
Many moons ago, my favourite way to end an evening when coming back into town in the Griff was to burble up the Hendon Way and then slide the car round onto the Finchley Road in second. Wouldn’t be able to do that these days. The junction is never quiet.
Despite learning to drive round there I’m still amazed by the kids who have to do it today. Absolute batismnof fire but the end result is being able to be chilled in practically any environment on the planet. Certainly helped when driving in various cities in Asia!
Many moons ago, my favourite way to end an evening when coming back into town in the Griff was to burble up the Hendon Way and then slide the car round onto the Finchley Road in second. Wouldn’t be able to do that these days. The junction is never quiet.
DonkeyApple said:
Being able to read those little signs was the key to slashing A to B times. Happy days.
Despite learning to drive round there I’m still amazed by the kids who have to do it today. Absolute batismnof fire but the end result is being able to be chilled in practically any environment on the planet. Certainly helped when driving in various cities in Asia!
Many moons ago, my favourite way to end an evening when coming back into town in the Griff was to burble up the Hendon Way and then slide the car round onto the Finchley Road in second. Wouldn’t be able to do that these days. The junction is never quiet.
Mate that junction is like a never ending nightmare especially when your going straight, the right hand turn ain't too bad unless some idiots start swerving into your lane.Despite learning to drive round there I’m still amazed by the kids who have to do it today. Absolute batismnof fire but the end result is being able to be chilled in practically any environment on the planet. Certainly helped when driving in various cities in Asia!
Many moons ago, my favourite way to end an evening when coming back into town in the Griff was to burble up the Hendon Way and then slide the car round onto the Finchley Road in second. Wouldn’t be able to do that these days. The junction is never quiet.
Going straight is a pain, all the car drivers just want to push infront of the lorry and you find yourself stuck there for good couple minutes unable to move because of a yellow box junction.
Like the Brent Cross roundabout over the 406 just down the way, you need to physically lean on people. If you’re joining from the Hendon way and in the right lane then any car on the left will slice the corner so you need to get up along side and guide them around, pushing them out or pull right back to let them cut across. Once into those three lanes then there will be cars in the centre and even the left who are turning right and need to get across, if there is a bus at the stop on the left then people will be trying to get out round it, causing the centre lane to clog. And then once over the junction around 50% of cars that were in the centre lane, which is now the right lane will blindly cut across into the left lane, which is now the centre lane if you include the bus lane that starts at that point.
It’s probably harder with a lorry but with a car you just have to stage manage the actors by gently leaning on them and pushing them where you want them or holding them where they are. You can see what they are about to do long before they’ve even thought about doing it (assuming there is any thought) and you just head them off.
For a lorry waiting to go straight over and sitting in the centre lane going to the right lane after the junction then you need to keep the road on the other side of the box clear so once it’s clear enough to go you need to indicate left and lean slightly left so that the cars on your left believe you’re coming across so stay back where they are instead of racing past and crossing into the gap you need.
That’s how you have to turn right into the Hendon Way from the 406 at Brent Cross. You have to be in the right hand lane of the slip onto the roundabout but if you go all the way round in the right then you’ll have a stream of cars from the Hendon Way on the left pouring out in front of you and slicing straight across and if you survive that you won’t be able to get into the left lane to exit as there will be a stream of cars none of whole will ever let you in and if you leave it to the end where there are clear road markings to do this with two lanes exiting you will not be able to exit as a car from your left will cut across into your lane as it is either actually going all the way round or just wants to exit using both lanes. And if there isn’t a car to your left then all the cars at the junction from the 406 on your left will pull right out in front of you.
The only way to turn right there is to dive out of the right lane into the inner lane of the roundabout correctly, but once under the underpass you indicate left as if you are coming back off into the 406. By do that the cars to your left don’t cut across you and the cars waiting at the left junction stay put as they assume that you are just going to slice all the way across at high speed (also helps at all these junctions to be in too low a gear so your engine is making as much noise as possible
). You then stay in the right lane until after that exit and move across free and clear to the left lane ready to prevent the cars at the next junction from having any ideas about leaping out in front of you. Once you are off into the two lane slip you then indicate a few rights but stay in the left. That just keeps the people behind you on their toes and stops them trying to overtake where the two lanes end and there is no overtake!!!
And the final rule is that if there is a National Express coach in the vicinity you must recognise that they will our bluff you every time and you stand no chance of playing any fun and games. Just casually follow behind in their wake of total destruction as they plough along.
The locals also respond directly based on the size or badge of the vehicle. The fastest car around NW3 after decades of live field testing is an old, tatty Range Rover Classic. It’s tall enough for the average competitor to assume that you are bigger than them so they yield, it’s actually small enough to take gaps that appear and it is old enough that the average competitor will always back down regardless of how cheap they think their car is. Bigger and crapper is the key to being able to herd folk around there.
The worst car discovered was a Pug 406 when they were all used as minicabs!!! Unbelievable reversalnof fortune. You were totally invisible and if you were seen then it would lead to them specifically just wanting to be where you were in point of principle and they would run you out of your lane. Black cans would specifically try and runnyou off the road or just stop across the front of you to stop you exiting a junction for as long as possible.
You’ll also see drivers specifically go gunning for Learners because they won’t fight back and cyclists can get leant on deliberately.
Around there they have a pecking order which starts with them at the top so you won’t get anything by asking or expecting people to be civilised. You just need to herd them, gently and politely like mindless cattle.
I miss London driving. I keep having to have a word with myself now that I live in England that it’s different rules when in a different country..
For instance, in England no one at all understands what Merge in Turn means. They will all stack up on the left and try and leave a solitary car half out into the empty lane that you’re meant to be using to ease the traffic problem. Or maybe they are just being typically English and super polite, leaving an entire lane empty just for me in case I happen to be on that stretch of road. They can’t all be monumentally thick as mince so it must be them being overly polite and letting a guest through first.
It’s probably harder with a lorry but with a car you just have to stage manage the actors by gently leaning on them and pushing them where you want them or holding them where they are. You can see what they are about to do long before they’ve even thought about doing it (assuming there is any thought) and you just head them off.
For a lorry waiting to go straight over and sitting in the centre lane going to the right lane after the junction then you need to keep the road on the other side of the box clear so once it’s clear enough to go you need to indicate left and lean slightly left so that the cars on your left believe you’re coming across so stay back where they are instead of racing past and crossing into the gap you need.
That’s how you have to turn right into the Hendon Way from the 406 at Brent Cross. You have to be in the right hand lane of the slip onto the roundabout but if you go all the way round in the right then you’ll have a stream of cars from the Hendon Way on the left pouring out in front of you and slicing straight across and if you survive that you won’t be able to get into the left lane to exit as there will be a stream of cars none of whole will ever let you in and if you leave it to the end where there are clear road markings to do this with two lanes exiting you will not be able to exit as a car from your left will cut across into your lane as it is either actually going all the way round or just wants to exit using both lanes. And if there isn’t a car to your left then all the cars at the junction from the 406 on your left will pull right out in front of you.
The only way to turn right there is to dive out of the right lane into the inner lane of the roundabout correctly, but once under the underpass you indicate left as if you are coming back off into the 406. By do that the cars to your left don’t cut across you and the cars waiting at the left junction stay put as they assume that you are just going to slice all the way across at high speed (also helps at all these junctions to be in too low a gear so your engine is making as much noise as possible
). You then stay in the right lane until after that exit and move across free and clear to the left lane ready to prevent the cars at the next junction from having any ideas about leaping out in front of you. Once you are off into the two lane slip you then indicate a few rights but stay in the left. That just keeps the people behind you on their toes and stops them trying to overtake where the two lanes end and there is no overtake!!!And the final rule is that if there is a National Express coach in the vicinity you must recognise that they will our bluff you every time and you stand no chance of playing any fun and games. Just casually follow behind in their wake of total destruction as they plough along.
The locals also respond directly based on the size or badge of the vehicle. The fastest car around NW3 after decades of live field testing is an old, tatty Range Rover Classic. It’s tall enough for the average competitor to assume that you are bigger than them so they yield, it’s actually small enough to take gaps that appear and it is old enough that the average competitor will always back down regardless of how cheap they think their car is. Bigger and crapper is the key to being able to herd folk around there.
The worst car discovered was a Pug 406 when they were all used as minicabs!!! Unbelievable reversalnof fortune. You were totally invisible and if you were seen then it would lead to them specifically just wanting to be where you were in point of principle and they would run you out of your lane. Black cans would specifically try and runnyou off the road or just stop across the front of you to stop you exiting a junction for as long as possible.
You’ll also see drivers specifically go gunning for Learners because they won’t fight back and cyclists can get leant on deliberately.
Around there they have a pecking order which starts with them at the top so you won’t get anything by asking or expecting people to be civilised. You just need to herd them, gently and politely like mindless cattle.
I miss London driving. I keep having to have a word with myself now that I live in England that it’s different rules when in a different country.
. For instance, in England no one at all understands what Merge in Turn means. They will all stack up on the left and try and leave a solitary car half out into the empty lane that you’re meant to be using to ease the traffic problem. Or maybe they are just being typically English and super polite, leaving an entire lane empty just for me in case I happen to be on that stretch of road. They can’t all be monumentally thick as mince so it must be them being overly polite and letting a guest through first.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Sunday 8th November 09:27
QBee said:
The last time I came into London in a car was on a Sunday about 4 years ago for a christening.
Not planning on repeating the experience - the couple in question have got divorced.
It would be nice if others were as sensible as you. I never understood why people who didn’t like driving in London kept doing it when there’s no real need to given the enormous level of public transport and other solutions. Not planning on repeating the experience - the couple in question have got divorced.
On a Sunday you can get stuck for ages behind a car that is at the front of the lights crossing Oxford St, for example, who when the lights go green won’t drive at the pedestrians who will just keep crossing until politely driven at.
It’s always amazed me just how fluid London traffic is all week, all sorts of different vehicles and driving styles yet it all moves, crammed together, far quicker than it does in other countries or parts of the UK. Gaps are taken, people don’t hesitate. It’s bafflingly efficient. Yet at the weekend, half the amount of traffic moves more slowly because of the arrival of ditherers.
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