No blame, no claim?

[shed driver]

I'm not a normally litigious person, but I must admit I'm feeling a little aggrieved at the moment.

I'm a nurse and I injured my back whilst transferring a patient from a bed to a trolley. There were enough staff, all were competent and in date with their manual handling training. There was the right amount of equipment which was all working and readily available.

Sadly, on transferring the patient he grabbed out at me and pulled me forward by the neck. I now have multilevel disc prolapses and am awaiting review by the spinal surgery team. I've not been able to work due to back pain and lack of sensation in my leg.

I was due to retire in about 6 months and had been working predominantly nights and weekends to enhance my pension (yes, I know, gold plated, should try working in the real world etc. )

Due to Covid all of my investigations and treatments so far have been delayed and there is currently no timeslot for initial review by the spinal surgeons. I realise that this is a very first world problem, but the quicker I can get back I can support my colleagues in the current crisis. I was working on a hot covid unit in the first wave and have many years critical care experience, so I'm sure I would be needed!

I realise that there has to be an element of negligence or blame for a claim to succeed.
I'm in a union (boo hiss, work of the devil etc ) and am awaiting their advice.

Any thoughts?

SD.

[LJFoley]

So appreciate negligence or blame is needed for a claim to succeed, yet you state there was enough people, equipment etc. isn't this just an unfortunate incident that could not have been foreseen and nothing put in place could prevent it happening again?

I'm not sure what your asking but i pretty certain no claim would be entertained. Further more a claim against who? you employer, who by your own admission has put an adequate procedure in place? The patient who grabbed you?

Bit confused.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

I concur. It doesn't seem your employer has done anything wrong here, nor any of your colleagues for which your employer is vicariously liable. You've been injured at work in an unfortunate event, for which no one was to blame.

[shed driver]

LJFoley said:

So appreciate negligence or blame is needed for a claim to succeed, yet you state there was enough people, equipment etc. isn't this just an unfortunate incident that could not have been foreseen and nothing put in place could prevent it happening again?

I'm not sure what your asking but i pretty certain no claim would be entertained. Further more a claim against who? you employer, who by your own admission has put an adequate procedure in place? The patient who grabbed you?

Bit confused.

I realise it was just one of those things, and everything was in place. It does seem a little unfair as I'm currently in pain with possible impending surgery due to no fault of my own (or my employer). I do also realise that life is unfair and I'm a damn sight luckier than a lot of people.

SD.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

shed driver said:

I do also realise that life is unfair

And there you have it I'm afraid. Your could have done exactly the same injury slipping on a wet leaf walking down your own path. Bad things happen, often to good people.

[BertBert]

shed driver said:

I'm not a normally litigious person, but I must admit I'm feeling a little aggrieved at the moment.

I'm a nurse and I injured my back whilst transferring a patient from a bed to a trolley. There were enough staff, all were competent and in date with their manual handling training. There was the right amount of equipment which was all working and readily available.

Sadly, on transferring the patient he grabbed out at me and pulled me forward by the neck. I now have multilevel disc prolapses and am awaiting review by the spinal surgery team. I've not been able to work due to back pain and lack of sensation in my leg.

I was due to retire in about 6 months and had been working predominantly nights and weekends to enhance my pension (yes, I know, gold plated, should try working in the real world etc. )

Due to Covid all of my investigations and treatments so far have been delayed and there is currently no timeslot for initial review by the spinal surgeons. I realise that this is a very first world problem, but the quicker I can get back I can support my colleagues in the current crisis. I was working on a hot covid unit in the first wave and have many years critical care experience, so I'm sure I would be needed!

I realise that there has to be an element of negligence or blame for a claim to succeed.
I'm in a union (boo hiss, work of the devil etc ) and am awaiting their advice.

Any thoughts?

SD.

#
I'm just wondering what you are actually looking for? A way to get treated quicker so you can get back to work, or some compensation? I can't help with ideas for the former, but for the latter just go and find a personal injury lawyer and get going with a claim.
Bert

[untakenname]

If the patient grabbed you then why not go after them for assault?

[RazerSauber]

IANAL but was the procedure sufficient enough to ensure staff safety if this type of incident was possible? Surely it must've been considered as a risk?

Bear in mind, the only manual handling training I've had is retail so just boxes on 1/2 man lifts.

Best of luck on your recovery.

[blueg33]

BertBert said:

shed driver said:

I'm not a normally litigious person, but I must admit I'm feeling a little aggrieved at the moment.

I'm a nurse and I injured my back whilst transferring a patient from a bed to a trolley. There were enough staff, all were competent and in date with their manual handling training. There was the right amount of equipment which was all working and readily available.

Sadly, on transferring the patient he grabbed out at me and pulled me forward by the neck. I now have multilevel disc prolapses and am awaiting review by the spinal surgery team. I've not been able to work due to back pain and lack of sensation in my leg.

I was due to retire in about 6 months and had been working predominantly nights and weekends to enhance my pension (yes, I know, gold plated, should try working in the real world etc. )

Due to Covid all of my investigations and treatments so far have been delayed and there is currently no timeslot for initial review by the spinal surgeons. I realise that this is a very first world problem, but the quicker I can get back I can support my colleagues in the current crisis. I was working on a hot covid unit in the first wave and have many years critical care experience, so I'm sure I would be needed!

I realise that there has to be an element of negligence or blame for a claim to succeed.
I'm in a union (boo hiss, work of the devil etc ) and am awaiting their advice.

Any thoughts?

SD.

#
I'm just wondering what you are actually looking for? A way to get treated quicker so you can get back to work, or some compensation? I can't help with ideas for the former, but for the latter just go and find a personal injury lawyer and get going with a claim.
Bert

I don't think that it has to be binary

Not sure there is a claim though, it would need an expert lawyer as a starting point

[anonymous-user]

Was a risk assessment done on the patient and the task before moving him?

[Roofless Toothless]

I would have thought that an accident of this type is an industrial injury, and as such you would be able to claim benefit according to an assessment of your disability.

https://www.gov.uk/industrial-injuries-disablement...

A quick look tells me that ‘accidents’ are included here, and we are not talking blame.

[320d is all you need]

I would suspect if the OP could simply get fast track assessment/surgery/assistance that will be enough.

From the tone of the post I don't think they are out for a £50,000 payout.

[QBee]

I feel this may be what insurance is for, did you have any?

Sorry you cannot get seen sooner - I am off to the QMC in Nottingham in about 25 minutes for my initial consultation with a spinal consultant and his physio/practitioner, as I have a narrowing of the spinal column, pressure in the lumbar region and permanent sciatica in both legs. It has taken about 5 months since my initial MRI scan to get to this second stage. Hope this helps in some way - hang on in there.

[tinnitusjosh]

shed driver said:

I'm in a union and am awaiting their advice.

I expect the union representatives will give you better advice than almost anyone on this forum

[Roofless Toothless]

tinnitusjosh said:

shed driver said:

I'm in a union and am awaiting their advice.

I expect the union representatives will give you better advice than almost anyone on this forum

Er hem ... I was a Unison Steward and H&S Rep in the Blood Service for many years at senior (national) level, responsible for about 2000 members.

If appropriate manual handling training was given and procedures being applied then management pretty well have their back covered (whoops sorry, pun not intended.) Of course, there should be documentation for all this to prove the OP was present at training and the training was properly designed and performed. All the relevant pieces of paper should be in existence, and you and your rep can demand them to examine.

The training will have been written according to appropriate risk assessments and standard operating procedures put in place. Remember that assessments can only cover risks that can be ‘reasonably’ expected to occur. Whether a patient moving during the procedure was thought about, least of all making a grab at someone, we don’t know. If it wasn’t taken into consideration, there will be an debate about whether such a thing could be reasonably expected to happen, and what you could reasonably be expected to do about it if it did.

As an aside, if you have ever been to a blood donor session you will know that people occasionally faint. Sometimes they are standing up when they do this. Instinctively members of staff will try to grab the donor to make sure they are not injured when they land, and people have got hurt doing this. The problem was risk assessed, and the resulting training was to simply let the donor drop. Don’t grab them at all. Of course, I defy any empathic human being to do this, and it certainly doesn’t look good to anybody watching if a carer just stands looking mildly interested when a donor collapses to the ground with a crash. But, with this training in place, just try and get any sympathy out of management now if you hurt yourself trying to protect a falling donor.

You see, this sort of thing is not so easy. If your local management has its house in order, you may have a lot of difficulty claiming any sort of recompense from them. Equally, I have to admit that union branches are not always equally as active and efficient at different NHS sites. You may be lucky and have some well trained stewards with a bit of go in them to support you, but don’t be surprised if they turn out to be useless locally. If that happens, demand to go over their heads and see a full time officer from your union, who should be able to set you straight about what you could or couldn’t expect to see as an outcome.

Now, I never had course to do this in my time, but I suspect the best thing for you may well be industrial injury compensation as I suggested above. It doesn’t seem to be predicated on blame, and the page I linked to actually uses the word ‘accident’ , which to me is encouraging. Again, see if your union rep has any experience of this.

By the way, your Trust will have its own H&S managers, but don’t think they are they to help you as a staff member. Their job is to advise line managers about the least troublesome measures they can put in place to cover their legal obligations. Sorry to be so cynical, but that’s how it works. Your union officers are the only ones there for you, and I hope you are pleased with what support is available locally.