Would I be breaking the lockdown rules?
Discussion
I live in a Tier 3 area in England (London).
My parents live in a Tier 3 area in the North of Scotland.
I intend to drive home for Christmas, a ten hour drive, during the relaxation of the rules over Christmas.
I would prefer to stay in an hotel on the way up, outside the relaxation period, in order to break up the journey.
I would pick an hotel in a Tier 2 area - probably Penrith.
Is this illegal?
As I read them, the Regulations on Tier 3 restrictions relate to restrictions on gatherings and business' opening. I don't see any restrictions on travelling.
The guidance says: "You should avoid travelling outside your area and reduce the number of journeys you make wherever possible." It also says:
"Avoid travelling outside your area, including for overnight stays, other than where necessary, such as:
for work
for education
to access voluntary, charitable or youth services
because of caring responsibilities
for moving home
to visit your support bubble
for a medical appointment or treatment
Where necessary, you can travel through other areas as part of a longer journey.
If you live in a Tier 3 area, you must continue to follow Tier 3 rules when you travel to a Tier 1 or Tier 2 area. You must not stay with anyone you do not live with elsewhere in the UK or visit their home (unless you share a support bubble)"
In my view, this is neither unlawful under the regulations (which are all that really matter), nor strictly not allowed under the guidance. So were I stopped, I could tell the police this. Would you agree?
Of course, arriving at my parent's house prior to 00:01 on 23rd would be unlawful ...
My parents live in a Tier 3 area in the North of Scotland.
I intend to drive home for Christmas, a ten hour drive, during the relaxation of the rules over Christmas.
I would prefer to stay in an hotel on the way up, outside the relaxation period, in order to break up the journey.
I would pick an hotel in a Tier 2 area - probably Penrith.
Is this illegal?
As I read them, the Regulations on Tier 3 restrictions relate to restrictions on gatherings and business' opening. I don't see any restrictions on travelling.
The guidance says: "You should avoid travelling outside your area and reduce the number of journeys you make wherever possible." It also says:
"Avoid travelling outside your area, including for overnight stays, other than where necessary, such as:
for work
for education
to access voluntary, charitable or youth services
because of caring responsibilities
for moving home
to visit your support bubble
for a medical appointment or treatment
Where necessary, you can travel through other areas as part of a longer journey.
If you live in a Tier 3 area, you must continue to follow Tier 3 rules when you travel to a Tier 1 or Tier 2 area. You must not stay with anyone you do not live with elsewhere in the UK or visit their home (unless you share a support bubble)"
In my view, this is neither unlawful under the regulations (which are all that really matter), nor strictly not allowed under the guidance. So were I stopped, I could tell the police this. Would you agree?
Of course, arriving at my parent's house prior to 00:01 on 23rd would be unlawful ...
Jasandjules said:
Are you truly going to allow this Govt of inept, incompetent and corrupt individuals dictate how you live your life?
Personally, and given my job, it is preferable to exist within the law. Plus my mum is keen on the rules being followed, and I am heading off to visit her. So, yes. Whilst I'm sure that the rules / guidance allow you to do what you're asking, is it really the best approach to your problem?
How pleasant / relaxing is an overnight hotel stay going to be under the current circumstances - even somewhere that's tier 2? Assuming that you manage to find somewhere that's open and will accept your booking.
Make an early start - stop every 2 or 3 hours - get out of the car and walk for 10 - 15 minutes. Take a longer break halfway. Get a Shell Go Plus card / account, take some food & drink with you and you won't need to wear a mask at all on the journey.
How pleasant / relaxing is an overnight hotel stay going to be under the current circumstances - even somewhere that's tier 2? Assuming that you manage to find somewhere that's open and will accept your booking.
Make an early start - stop every 2 or 3 hours - get out of the car and walk for 10 - 15 minutes. Take a longer break halfway. Get a Shell Go Plus card / account, take some food & drink with you and you won't need to wear a mask at all on the journey.
I could of course do it in a single trip, but it is a long way, with me doing all the driving. I did once do Glasgow to Plymouth in a Type R, so London to Aberdeen in a Rover 75 might be pretty relaxing in comparison, but there is also the advantage of extending our Christmas holiday and getting out the house (we don't get to leave much!). I am sure that a nice hotel in Penrith, a meal, a walk around the town would be reasonably pleasant (of course, assuming the tiers don't change between today and next week...).
PrinceRupert said:
I could of course do it in a single trip, but it is a long way, with me doing all the driving. I did once do Glasgow to Plymouth in a Type R, so London to Aberdeen in a Rover 75 might be pretty relaxing in comparison, but there is also the advantage of extending our Christmas holiday and getting out the house (we don't get to leave much!). I am sure that a nice hotel in Penrith, a meal, a walk around the town would be reasonably pleasant (of course, assuming the tiers don't change between today and next week...).
Just do it in one hit with some breaks, anyway you should get a few enforced ones using a Rover 75 
PrinceRupert said:
So staying in an hotel in Penrith on the night of the 21st is not illegal, but crossing the border on the 22nd is?
Technically. Christmas Amendment to Scottish restrictions"Christmas bubbles: what you need to know
Between 23 and 27 December, to help reduce loneliness and isolation:
...
you can travel anywhere in Scotland and the rest of the UK to meet people in your bubble – but you should follow local travel rules once you arrive
..."
ETA Therefore the Tier system is suspended in Scotland 23-27 Dec.
FWIW I've done London to Aberdeenshire about 20 times in the last 10 years and I would just do it in one go, with a decent break at the Tebay services to get a lunch and relax for an hour or so.
Edited by parabolica on Wednesday 16th December 13:36
I think Breadvan covered this sort of thing in another thread. Despite the repeated language used saying things are illegal, it is not actually the case and is merely guidance so therefore not prohibited in law.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1901282
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1901282
pavarotti1980 said:
I think Breadvan covered this sort of thing in another thread. Despite the repeated language used saying things are illegal, it is not actually the case and is merely guidance so therefore not prohibited in law.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1901282
Error on that link. Do you have the right one?https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1901282
MDMA . said:
Error on that link. Do you have the right one?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
If illegal, the Police are usually pretty active on the M74 through Dumfries & Galloway, so it might not be worth the risk going that way.
I've not heard of anyone getting pulled over for breach of lockdown rules, I think it would be quite a political storm if the Scottish police were effectively imposing a hard border between Scotland and England ...Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
We all know what the rules are and what they are trying to achieve. Just concentrate on that and don't take the p1ss. I'm now also in tier 3, outer London borough. Where my wife & I often go for walk at the weekend is about 3 miles away, but in tier 2. We'll still be going for our walk, just the two of us. Yes, it's outside the rules, but it's not doing any harm to anyone at all.
We all know what the rules are and what they are trying to achieve. Just concentrate on that and don't take the p1ss. I'm now also in tier 3, outer London borough. Where my wife & I often go for walk at the weekend is about 3 miles away, but in tier 2. We'll still be going for our walk, just the two of us. Yes, it's outside the rules, but it's not doing any harm to anyone at all.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
We all know what the rules are and what they are trying to achieve. Just concentrate on that and don't take the p1ss. I'm now also in tier 3, outer London borough. Where my wife & I often go for walk at the weekend is about 3 miles away, but in tier 2. We'll still be going for our walk, just the two of us. Yes, it's outside the rules, but it's not doing any harm to anyone at all.
Yes, but it wouldn't be ideal if I was pulled over at the border by the Scottish police. Plus, need to keep my mum happy!We all know what the rules are and what they are trying to achieve. Just concentrate on that and don't take the p1ss. I'm now also in tier 3, outer London borough. Where my wife & I often go for walk at the weekend is about 3 miles away, but in tier 2. We'll still be going for our walk, just the two of us. Yes, it's outside the rules, but it's not doing any harm to anyone at all.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
We all know what the rules are and what they are trying to achieve. Just concentrate on that and don't take the p1ss. I'm now also in tier 3, outer London borough. Where my wife & I often go for walk at the weekend is about 3 miles away, but in tier 2. We'll still be going for our walk, just the two of us. Yes, it's outside the rules, but it's not doing any harm to anyone at all.
You're not breaking the rules.We all know what the rules are and what they are trying to achieve. Just concentrate on that and don't take the p1ss. I'm now also in tier 3, outer London borough. Where my wife & I often go for walk at the weekend is about 3 miles away, but in tier 2. We'll still be going for our walk, just the two of us. Yes, it's outside the rules, but it's not doing any harm to anyone at all.
PrinceRupert said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
We all know what the rules are and what they are trying to achieve. Just concentrate on that and don't take the p1ss. I'm now also in tier 3, outer London borough. Where my wife & I often go for walk at the weekend is about 3 miles away, but in tier 2. We'll still be going for our walk, just the two of us. Yes, it's outside the rules, but it's not doing any harm to anyone at all.
Yes, but it wouldn't be ideal if I was pulled over at the border by the Scottish police. Plus, need to keep my mum happy!We all know what the rules are and what they are trying to achieve. Just concentrate on that and don't take the p1ss. I'm now also in tier 3, outer London borough. Where my wife & I often go for walk at the weekend is about 3 miles away, but in tier 2. We'll still be going for our walk, just the two of us. Yes, it's outside the rules, but it's not doing any harm to anyone at all.
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