Advice Required on Council PCN received!
Discussion
Our leased car that was parked outside our house was hit by a scaffold lorry resulting in a broken mirror.
Long story short, we were able to find the driver via an anonymous note left on the car with the reg of the scaffold lorry and social media. The claim is now going through insurance.
My insurance company arranged for a courtesy car whilst our car was collected for repair.
During the overlap between the courtesy car being delivered and our car being collected, the parking services for the council advised us to use a temporary online parking voucher to cover this overlap of 2/3hrs and then to transfer the yearly active permit of our car to the courtesy car as a temporary option.
I was able to do this without any issues and selected the temporary permit option on Ringos website, however , the courtesy car when it was collected was collected sooner than expected and there was a delay in the return of our car which resulted in us forgetting to reinstate the yearly permit.
The next day before we had realised, it was too late and we had a ticket.
We have tried to challenge this ticket via email, however, it was rejected with a standard sounding response that didn't really consider that we had a valid residents permit up until the point of the courtesy car being provided and it was only TEMPORARILY transferred at the advice of the council parking dept.
We have a choice now either to pay a reduced PCN of £65 (deadline today) or challenge this further once Notice to Owner is received. This notice will go to the lease company before it comes back to us resulting in a £15 handling fee.
If our formal representation is rejected, will have to pay £130 + £15!
Any one have to go through the same or similar?
Should I challenge or just pay the reduced fee of £65?
A couple of years ago we forgot to renew our yearly permit as the reminder email went into spam and we appealed on this basis and they were happy to waive the permit so we were expecting a similar outcome this time around.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The following is a another email we have sent post rejection of our first appeal -
Dear Sir/Madam,
I would just like to respond to this letter with disappointment that our circumstances have not been considered whatsoever. I believe that a standard response has been sent out, rather than anyone actually looking at the case.
We are responding prior to the NTO being sent out as our car is a lease vehicle and we will incur a handling fee when the lease company receives and forwards the letter, not to mention this will also waste considerable time.
In summary the situation is as follows:
18/2/20 - yearly residents permit renewed for our lease car (reg)
20/11/20 permit temporarily transferred to courtesy car (reg) on the advice of parking office (this transfer was because our car was being repaired due to a to a scaffold truck carelessly driving down our road and hitting our vehicle whilst parked outside our property). Initially temporary vouchers were purchased to cover the overlap between delivery of courtesy car and collection of our car.
1/12/20 courtesy car collected and our own car returned a few hours later - we forgot to transfer the permit back that day due to the sudden collection of the courtesy car and being busy with our work and 3 young children
2/12/20 parking ticket received when the car was parked outside our property. It is surprising that the parking attendant was not able to see the history of the permit on his device.
We pay for a residents permit on a yearly basis.
The permit was temporarily transferred to the courtesy vehicle and this option was selected on the ringo website. I'm sure that it will be clear from your record that this was the situation.
We had an active permit at the time that the ticket was issued which was renewed as above.
The main point here is that we have had an active permit throughout and we are being penalised for a genuine oversight . We were parked on our road, with a vehicle that we have purchased a yearly permit for, wtth the courtesy car having already been collected.
If required we can provide further details of collection of courtesy car/delivery of our car. Please see attached email evidence of parking vouchers and temporary change of vehicle on permit.
I would ask you to please reconsider your decision based on the information provided above.
Regards,
Long story short, we were able to find the driver via an anonymous note left on the car with the reg of the scaffold lorry and social media. The claim is now going through insurance.
My insurance company arranged for a courtesy car whilst our car was collected for repair.
During the overlap between the courtesy car being delivered and our car being collected, the parking services for the council advised us to use a temporary online parking voucher to cover this overlap of 2/3hrs and then to transfer the yearly active permit of our car to the courtesy car as a temporary option.
I was able to do this without any issues and selected the temporary permit option on Ringos website, however , the courtesy car when it was collected was collected sooner than expected and there was a delay in the return of our car which resulted in us forgetting to reinstate the yearly permit.
The next day before we had realised, it was too late and we had a ticket.
We have tried to challenge this ticket via email, however, it was rejected with a standard sounding response that didn't really consider that we had a valid residents permit up until the point of the courtesy car being provided and it was only TEMPORARILY transferred at the advice of the council parking dept.
We have a choice now either to pay a reduced PCN of £65 (deadline today) or challenge this further once Notice to Owner is received. This notice will go to the lease company before it comes back to us resulting in a £15 handling fee.
If our formal representation is rejected, will have to pay £130 + £15!
Any one have to go through the same or similar?
Should I challenge or just pay the reduced fee of £65?
A couple of years ago we forgot to renew our yearly permit as the reminder email went into spam and we appealed on this basis and they were happy to waive the permit so we were expecting a similar outcome this time around.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The following is a another email we have sent post rejection of our first appeal -
Dear Sir/Madam,
I would just like to respond to this letter with disappointment that our circumstances have not been considered whatsoever. I believe that a standard response has been sent out, rather than anyone actually looking at the case.
We are responding prior to the NTO being sent out as our car is a lease vehicle and we will incur a handling fee when the lease company receives and forwards the letter, not to mention this will also waste considerable time.
In summary the situation is as follows:
18/2/20 - yearly residents permit renewed for our lease car (reg)
20/11/20 permit temporarily transferred to courtesy car (reg) on the advice of parking office (this transfer was because our car was being repaired due to a to a scaffold truck carelessly driving down our road and hitting our vehicle whilst parked outside our property). Initially temporary vouchers were purchased to cover the overlap between delivery of courtesy car and collection of our car.
1/12/20 courtesy car collected and our own car returned a few hours later - we forgot to transfer the permit back that day due to the sudden collection of the courtesy car and being busy with our work and 3 young children
2/12/20 parking ticket received when the car was parked outside our property. It is surprising that the parking attendant was not able to see the history of the permit on his device.
We pay for a residents permit on a yearly basis.
The permit was temporarily transferred to the courtesy vehicle and this option was selected on the ringo website. I'm sure that it will be clear from your record that this was the situation.
We had an active permit at the time that the ticket was issued which was renewed as above.
The main point here is that we have had an active permit throughout and we are being penalised for a genuine oversight . We were parked on our road, with a vehicle that we have purchased a yearly permit for, wtth the courtesy car having already been collected.
If required we can provide further details of collection of courtesy car/delivery of our car. Please see attached email evidence of parking vouchers and temporary change of vehicle on permit.
I would ask you to please reconsider your decision based on the information provided above.
Regards,
BFerman77 said:
...which resulted in us forgetting to reinstate the yearly permit...
A couple of years ago we forgot to renew our yearly permit....
Sounds like they've already given you a 'free pass' for your previous episode of forgetfulness. Just pay the fine, it'll be less heartache in the long run!A couple of years ago we forgot to renew our yearly permit....
BFerman77 said:
Our leased car that was parked outside our house was hit by a scaffold lorry resulting in a broken mirror.
Long story short, we were able to find the driver via an anonymous note left on the car with the reg of the scaffold lorry and social media. The claim is now going through insurance.
My insurance company arranged for a courtesy car whilst our car was collected for repair.
During the overlap between the courtesy car being delivered and our car being collected, the parking services for the council advised us to use a temporary online parking voucher to cover this overlap of 2/3hrs and then to transfer the yearly active permit of our car to the courtesy car as a temporary option.
I was able to do this without any issues and selected the temporary permit option on Ringos website, however , the courtesy car when it was collected was collected sooner than expected and there was a delay in the return of our car which resulted in us forgetting to reinstate the yearly permit.
The next day before we had realised, it was too late and we had a ticket.
We have tried to challenge this ticket via email, however, it was rejected with a standard sounding response that didn't really consider that we had a valid residents permit up until the point of the courtesy car being provided and it was only TEMPORARILY transferred at the advice of the council parking dept.
We have a choice now either to pay a reduced PCN of £65 (deadline today) or challenge this further once Notice to Owner is received. This notice will go to the lease company before it comes back to us resulting in a £15 handling fee.
If our formal representation is rejected, will have to pay £130 + £15!
Any one have to go through the same or similar?
Should I challenge or just pay the reduced fee of £65?
A couple of years ago we forgot to renew our yearly permit as the reminder email went into spam and we appealed on this basis and they were happy to waive the permit so we were expecting a similar outcome this time around.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The following is a another email we have sent post rejection of our first appeal -
Dear Sir/Madam,
I would just like to respond to this letter with disappointment that our circumstances have not been considered whatsoever. I believe that a standard response has been sent out, rather than anyone actually looking at the case.
We are responding prior to the NTO being sent out as our car is a lease vehicle and we will incur a handling fee when the lease company receives and forwards the letter, not to mention this will also waste considerable time.
In summary the situation is as follows:
18/2/20 - yearly residents permit renewed for our lease car (reg)
20/11/20 permit temporarily transferred to courtesy car (reg) on the advice of parking office (this transfer was because our car was being repaired due to a to a scaffold truck carelessly driving down our road and hitting our vehicle whilst parked outside our property). Initially temporary vouchers were purchased to cover the overlap between delivery of courtesy car and collection of our car.
1/12/20 courtesy car collected and our own car returned a few hours later - we forgot to transfer the permit back that day due to the sudden collection of the courtesy car and being busy with our work and 3 young children
2/12/20 parking ticket received when the car was parked outside our property. It is surprising that the parking attendant was not able to see the history of the permit on his device.
We pay for a residents permit on a yearly basis.
The permit was temporarily transferred to the courtesy vehicle and this option was selected on the ringo website. I'm sure that it will be clear from your record that this was the situation.
We had an active permit at the time that the ticket was issued which was renewed as above.
The main point here is that we have had an active permit throughout and we are being penalised for a genuine oversight . We were parked on our road, with a vehicle that we have purchased a yearly permit for, wtth the courtesy car having already been collected.
If required we can provide further details of collection of courtesy car/delivery of our car. Please see attached email evidence of parking vouchers and temporary change of vehicle on permit.
I would ask you to please reconsider your decision based on the information provided above.
Regards,
Hounslow?Long story short, we were able to find the driver via an anonymous note left on the car with the reg of the scaffold lorry and social media. The claim is now going through insurance.
My insurance company arranged for a courtesy car whilst our car was collected for repair.
During the overlap between the courtesy car being delivered and our car being collected, the parking services for the council advised us to use a temporary online parking voucher to cover this overlap of 2/3hrs and then to transfer the yearly active permit of our car to the courtesy car as a temporary option.
I was able to do this without any issues and selected the temporary permit option on Ringos website, however , the courtesy car when it was collected was collected sooner than expected and there was a delay in the return of our car which resulted in us forgetting to reinstate the yearly permit.
The next day before we had realised, it was too late and we had a ticket.
We have tried to challenge this ticket via email, however, it was rejected with a standard sounding response that didn't really consider that we had a valid residents permit up until the point of the courtesy car being provided and it was only TEMPORARILY transferred at the advice of the council parking dept.
We have a choice now either to pay a reduced PCN of £65 (deadline today) or challenge this further once Notice to Owner is received. This notice will go to the lease company before it comes back to us resulting in a £15 handling fee.
If our formal representation is rejected, will have to pay £130 + £15!
Any one have to go through the same or similar?
Should I challenge or just pay the reduced fee of £65?
A couple of years ago we forgot to renew our yearly permit as the reminder email went into spam and we appealed on this basis and they were happy to waive the permit so we were expecting a similar outcome this time around.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The following is a another email we have sent post rejection of our first appeal -
Dear Sir/Madam,
I would just like to respond to this letter with disappointment that our circumstances have not been considered whatsoever. I believe that a standard response has been sent out, rather than anyone actually looking at the case.
We are responding prior to the NTO being sent out as our car is a lease vehicle and we will incur a handling fee when the lease company receives and forwards the letter, not to mention this will also waste considerable time.
In summary the situation is as follows:
18/2/20 - yearly residents permit renewed for our lease car (reg)
20/11/20 permit temporarily transferred to courtesy car (reg) on the advice of parking office (this transfer was because our car was being repaired due to a to a scaffold truck carelessly driving down our road and hitting our vehicle whilst parked outside our property). Initially temporary vouchers were purchased to cover the overlap between delivery of courtesy car and collection of our car.
1/12/20 courtesy car collected and our own car returned a few hours later - we forgot to transfer the permit back that day due to the sudden collection of the courtesy car and being busy with our work and 3 young children
2/12/20 parking ticket received when the car was parked outside our property. It is surprising that the parking attendant was not able to see the history of the permit on his device.
We pay for a residents permit on a yearly basis.
The permit was temporarily transferred to the courtesy vehicle and this option was selected on the ringo website. I'm sure that it will be clear from your record that this was the situation.
We had an active permit at the time that the ticket was issued which was renewed as above.
The main point here is that we have had an active permit throughout and we are being penalised for a genuine oversight . We were parked on our road, with a vehicle that we have purchased a yearly permit for, wtth the courtesy car having already been collected.
If required we can provide further details of collection of courtesy car/delivery of our car. Please see attached email evidence of parking vouchers and temporary change of vehicle on permit.
I would ask you to please reconsider your decision based on the information provided above.
Regards,
Probably a bit late now, but I’ll provide some useful general advice that may help others.
Keep your correspondence in such matters extremely concise. You probably got a standard response because they couldn’t be bothered to read your waffle. They will have hundreds of these things to read every single working day.
If you struggle with brevity, write in bullet points.
I live at 1 Acacia Avenue and have a valid residents parking permit.
On 01/01/2020 I received a PCN on my vehicle AB12CDE whilst parked outside my home.
On 28/12/2019 on the advice of your department I transferred my permit to a temporary vehicle whilst my car was being repaired for a few days.
On 01/01/2020 my vehicle was returned and the temporary vehicle collected whilst I was out. I did not have the opportunity to restore the permit to my usual vehicle prior to the PCN being issued.
In light of the these circumstances, I would request that the PCN is cancelled.
Keep your correspondence in such matters extremely concise. You probably got a standard response because they couldn’t be bothered to read your waffle. They will have hundreds of these things to read every single working day.
If you struggle with brevity, write in bullet points.
I live at 1 Acacia Avenue and have a valid residents parking permit.
On 01/01/2020 I received a PCN on my vehicle AB12CDE whilst parked outside my home.
On 28/12/2019 on the advice of your department I transferred my permit to a temporary vehicle whilst my car was being repaired for a few days.
On 01/01/2020 my vehicle was returned and the temporary vehicle collected whilst I was out. I did not have the opportunity to restore the permit to my usual vehicle prior to the PCN being issued.
In light of the these circumstances, I would request that the PCN is cancelled.
quinny100 said:
Probably a bit late now, but I’ll provide some useful general advice that may help others.
Keep your correspondence in such matters extremely concise. You probably got a standard response because they couldn’t be bothered to read your waffle. They will have hundreds of these things to read every single working day.
If you struggle with brevity, write in bullet points.
I live at 1 Acacia Avenue and have a valid residents parking permit.
On 01/01/2020 I received a PCN on my vehicle AB12CDE whilst parked outside my home.
On 28/12/2019 on the advice of your department I transferred my permit to a temporary vehicle whilst my car was being repaired for a few days.
On 01/01/2020 my vehicle was returned and the temporary vehicle collected whilst I was out. I did not have the opportunity to restore the permit to my usual vehicle prior to the PCN being issued.
In light of the these circumstances, I would request that the PCN is cancelled.
Ah, so thats what happened!Keep your correspondence in such matters extremely concise. You probably got a standard response because they couldn’t be bothered to read your waffle. They will have hundreds of these things to read every single working day.
If you struggle with brevity, write in bullet points.
I live at 1 Acacia Avenue and have a valid residents parking permit.
On 01/01/2020 I received a PCN on my vehicle AB12CDE whilst parked outside my home.
On 28/12/2019 on the advice of your department I transferred my permit to a temporary vehicle whilst my car was being repaired for a few days.
On 01/01/2020 my vehicle was returned and the temporary vehicle collected whilst I was out. I did not have the opportunity to restore the permit to my usual vehicle prior to the PCN being issued.
In light of the these circumstances, I would request that the PCN is cancelled.
I agree, way too much noise and irrelevance in ops description
Based on his description I thought he should just pay up, based on yours I think he needs to argue the toss
Surely its not the councils problem your administration was not up to scratch? I suspect that will be the reason you will loose any appeal.
Sure its a bit of a piss take as you've paid the money but they will quite rightly argue you did not strictly follow the rules and hence could be ticketed.
Sure its a bit of a piss take as you've paid the money but they will quite rightly argue you did not strictly follow the rules and hence could be ticketed.
Sebring440 said:
Pay the £65!
How much time out of your life is worth £65?
How long did it take you to write the post above?
Yep, I’m with you on this. I used to enjoy contesting parking tickets but then I realised that I was getting older and time was precious. I just pay up now and don’t think twice about it. I’m sure nobody on their deathbed ever looked back and thought I wish I’d spent more time writing convoluted letters to my council. How much time out of your life is worth £65?
How long did it take you to write the post above?
Generally I'm in the pay up and keep your lame excuses to yourself camp.
However residents parking schemes are put in place solely for the benefit of the residents and for genuine instances like this where the vehicles were swapped by a third party it seems to me to be rather unfair to impose punitive fines upon the very group the scheme was put in place to benefit.
However residents parking schemes are put in place solely for the benefit of the residents and for genuine instances like this where the vehicles were swapped by a third party it seems to me to be rather unfair to impose punitive fines upon the very group the scheme was put in place to benefit.
I'm not sure if the rules for council issued tickets are the same as for private parking company issued tickets, but with the latter, if you have a lease car, you are pretty much home and dry, as they never send the correct 'notice to Hirer' to you, and you can appeal on that basis.
I'm not saying you should use it as a general get out of jail free card, but in this case, where you've already paid for the thing they are trying to charge you for, it's only fair enough.
The relevant bits they have to send are :
The relevant provisions concerning leased or hire vehicles are set out in Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4, POFA; the conditions that the Creditor must meet in order to be able to hold the Hirer liable for the charge are set out in Paragraph 14.
Paragraph 14 (2) (a) specifies that in addition to delivering a Notice to Hirer within the relevant time period, the Creditor must also provide the Hirer with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2). These are:
(a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement
AND
(b) a copy of the hire agreement
AND
(c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement, together with a copy of the Notice to Keeper (i.e. the notice that had originally been sent to the lease company as Registered Keeper)
They will never send the last one for some reason.
I'm not saying you should use it as a general get out of jail free card, but in this case, where you've already paid for the thing they are trying to charge you for, it's only fair enough.
The relevant bits they have to send are :
The relevant provisions concerning leased or hire vehicles are set out in Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4, POFA; the conditions that the Creditor must meet in order to be able to hold the Hirer liable for the charge are set out in Paragraph 14.
Paragraph 14 (2) (a) specifies that in addition to delivering a Notice to Hirer within the relevant time period, the Creditor must also provide the Hirer with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2). These are:
(a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement
AND
(b) a copy of the hire agreement
AND
(c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement, together with a copy of the Notice to Keeper (i.e. the notice that had originally been sent to the lease company as Registered Keeper)
They will never send the last one for some reason.
Unless I am mistaken, the purpose of a residents permit is to allow residents that belong to that road to park their car on a priority basis.
1. I am resident of the road
2. I pay yearly, and have always done without fail, for a yearly residents parking permit along with my council taxes
3. My yearly permit was active at the time the PCN was handed out
4. The yearly active parking permit had a temporary transfer noted on the Ringgo account
5. The active permits history should show on my account that prior to the TEMPORARY transfer, the car that was ticketed had the active permit assigned to it
This does not make sense to me in the slightest to me.
How can we get penalised with a PCN for parking in a residents only parking allocation when we are residents of that very street and the only error on our part is a slight admin delay!
Daylight robbery in my opinion...
1. I am resident of the road
2. I pay yearly, and have always done without fail, for a yearly residents parking permit along with my council taxes
3. My yearly permit was active at the time the PCN was handed out
4. The yearly active parking permit had a temporary transfer noted on the Ringgo account
5. The active permits history should show on my account that prior to the TEMPORARY transfer, the car that was ticketed had the active permit assigned to it
This does not make sense to me in the slightest to me.
How can we get penalised with a PCN for parking in a residents only parking allocation when we are residents of that very street and the only error on our part is a slight admin delay!
Daylight robbery in my opinion...
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