DVSA. Any basis in Law to stop driving lessons?
Discussion
Once again, DVSA have thrown 40,000 instructors under the bus. However, I like a few others, have continued Instructing throughout the various Tiers and Lockdowns.
In November, I emailed DVSA a number of times asking specifically what part of The Act they were relying on. In response, I received pretty much a cut and paste of the ‘regulations’ that singularly avoided the question.
So I asked again. This time the response was ‘in line with Government Guidance, driver training should not take place’.
The response then went on to say, ‘enforcement is a Police matter’ and then the usual stuff about being convicted of an offence will be taken into consideration under the ‘fit and proper person’ rules.
I asked again. And pointed out there was no Govmnt Guidance/Law/regulation etc. other than what DVSA has decided. I asked again which specific part of the Act that stopped driving lessons? The response then included lots of stuff about risk assessment, working in vehicles, HSE will get me etc. But again, no answer to the question. But did end with, ‘doesn't matter now ‘cos the restrictions have been lifted’.
So here we are again. Unless The updated Act says ‘No driving lessons’, I’m going to follow the Law.
2 other instructors went so far as to report me to Police for breaking the ‘rules’. Those were very brief conversations, apparently
Thoughts please folks?
In November, I emailed DVSA a number of times asking specifically what part of The Act they were relying on. In response, I received pretty much a cut and paste of the ‘regulations’ that singularly avoided the question.
So I asked again. This time the response was ‘in line with Government Guidance, driver training should not take place’.
The response then went on to say, ‘enforcement is a Police matter’ and then the usual stuff about being convicted of an offence will be taken into consideration under the ‘fit and proper person’ rules.
I asked again. And pointed out there was no Govmnt Guidance/Law/regulation etc. other than what DVSA has decided. I asked again which specific part of the Act that stopped driving lessons? The response then included lots of stuff about risk assessment, working in vehicles, HSE will get me etc. But again, no answer to the question. But did end with, ‘doesn't matter now ‘cos the restrictions have been lifted’.
So here we are again. Unless The updated Act says ‘No driving lessons’, I’m going to follow the Law.
- I’m continuing lessons as that’s my work and I can't work from home.
- Pupil is undertaking a course of education (training bit seems to have been dropped) . Pupil meets reasonable excuse for leaving home.
- Pupil is buying goods and services and may meet others to purchase goods and services.
- I/Pupil can meet 1 other person (not part of my/their support group) in an indoor setting if its a person I/they see regularly (indoor setting is defined under the Act as having the same meaning as an indoor space under the non smoking Laws, so car qualifies an indoor setting)
- I follow the social distancing rules, if not possible, take extra precautions and advice from Govmnt regulations concerning working in vehicles.
2 other instructors went so far as to report me to Police for breaking the ‘rules’. Those were very brief conversations, apparently
Thoughts please folks?
Edited by TVR1 on Wednesday 6th January 16:48
Lorne1 said:
Interested in this as my daughter has had her lessons postponed. We have been told that insurance would be invalid, so the instructor has stopped working.
Sadly, a myth that started end of last year. debunked a number of times. ETA as that wasn’t a particularly enlightening response.
The issue came from a number of local rags picking up on the possibility that some motorists insurance ‘may’ be invalid and publishing it before actually checking the facts. The issue ended up being that some motorists had to use their cars for transport to and from work and didn’t have a formal commuting addition to their policies. The various rags extrapolated that to mean if you drive under Covid, you’ve no insurance.
ABI jumped on that fairly quickly and confirmed that that wasn’t correct. As usual though, very little, if any retraction from the Rags involved.
The old saying ‘Lies make it around the world before the truth has even got his trousers on’ rings true....
Edited by TVR1 on Wednesday 6th January 19:25
PrinceRupert said:
I can't see the relevance of your pupils being considered key workers
It was last year as they could still take tests. Thats the hypocrisy, no ‘suspension’ of lessons under lockdown 1 but now there is? We could take lessons then, with those at most risk of Covid but not now take lessons with those least at risk.TVR1 said:
PrinceRupert said:
I can't see the relevance of your pupils being considered key workers
It was last year as they could still take tests. Thats the hypocrisy, no ‘suspension’ of lessons under lockdown 1 but now there is? We could take lessons then, with those at most risk of Covid but not now take lessons with those least at risk.The DVSA are the government's executive agency who have to decide on & publish the guidance in respect of driving tuition.
They've published their guidance & taken action in respect of the activities directly under their control (such as tests & standards checks).
Their guidance & self imposed actions aren't the same thing as the law though.
They've published their guidance & taken action in respect of the activities directly under their control (such as tests & standards checks).
Their guidance & self imposed actions aren't the same thing as the law though.
PrinceRupert said:
Surely if someone is a key worker and is one despite being unable to drive, then learning to drive isn't essential to allow them to be a key worker?
Take a moment and have a think....Personal transport tends to be fairly essential if public transport becomes limited/reduced and you've no other practicable way of getting to work....
vonhosen said:
The DVSA are the government's executive agency who have to decide on & publish the guidance in respect of driving tuition.
They've published their guidance & taken action in respect of the activities directly under their control (such as tests & standards checks).
Their guidance & self imposed actions aren't the same thing as the law though.
That was indeed part of the email discussion. Cancelling tests and check tests etc is part of DVSA remit but not unilaterally deciding no lessons. They've published their guidance & taken action in respect of the activities directly under their control (such as tests & standards checks).
Their guidance & self imposed actions aren't the same thing as the law though.
Edited by TVR1 on Wednesday 6th January 17:37
TVR1 said:
PrinceRupert said:
Surely if someone is a key worker and is one despite being unable to drive, then learning to drive isn't essential to allow them to be a key worker?
Take a moment and have a think....Personal transport tends to be fairly essential if public transport becomes limited/reduced and you've no other practicable way of getting to work....
(Note: I don't think the legislation requires it to be essential, nor do I think there is anything in the legislation that prevents you from giving driving lessons).
You might be on shaky ground on this point:
I/Pupil can meet 1 other person (not part of my/their support group) in an indoor setting if its a person I/they see regularly (indoor setting is defined under the Act as having the same meaning as an indoor space under the non smoking Laws, so car qualifies an indoor setting)
The Pupil is only meeting 1 other person, but you are meeting multiple other people, although only 1 at a time.
This would be similar to inviting all your neighbours round for Tea, but only 1 at a time, would that be allowed?
I appreciate people have to work etc, but if I was you, I would be taking extra precautions at home and not meeting any elderly relatives.
I/Pupil can meet 1 other person (not part of my/their support group) in an indoor setting if its a person I/they see regularly (indoor setting is defined under the Act as having the same meaning as an indoor space under the non smoking Laws, so car qualifies an indoor setting)
The Pupil is only meeting 1 other person, but you are meeting multiple other people, although only 1 at a time.
This would be similar to inviting all your neighbours round for Tea, but only 1 at a time, would that be allowed?
I appreciate people have to work etc, but if I was you, I would be taking extra precautions at home and not meeting any elderly relatives.
Breadvan72 said:
I can see no legal impediment to you working.
‘Good for your figure and purpose’As they used to say in Banking Circles.
Thanks. I’ll take the succinctness of your response as indication that I haven't missed something that someone could drive a cart and horse through, when reading the Act.
TVR1 said:
Breadvan72 said:
I can see no legal impediment to you working.
‘Good for your figure and purpose’As they used to say in Banking Circles.
Thanks. I’ll take the succinctness of your response as indication that I haven't missed something that someone could drive a cart and horse through, when reading the Act.
Olivergt said:
You might be on shaky ground on this point:
I/Pupil can meet 1 other person (not part of my/their support group) in an indoor setting if its a person I/they see regularly (indoor setting is defined under the Act as having the same meaning as an indoor space under the non smoking Laws, so car qualifies an indoor setting)
The Pupil is only meeting 1 other person, but you are meeting multiple other people, although only 1 at a time.
This would be similar to inviting all your neighbours round for Tea, but only 1 at a time, would that be allowed?
.
To be fair, as I'm not in the habit of inviting neighbours around on a social basis anyway, that part of the Act escapes me, however, theres no mention of frequency of number of meetings with other persons in my context, so absent that prohibition, it doesn't exist?I/Pupil can meet 1 other person (not part of my/their support group) in an indoor setting if its a person I/they see regularly (indoor setting is defined under the Act as having the same meaning as an indoor space under the non smoking Laws, so car qualifies an indoor setting)
The Pupil is only meeting 1 other person, but you are meeting multiple other people, although only 1 at a time.
This would be similar to inviting all your neighbours round for Tea, but only 1 at a time, would that be allowed?
.
But, i do recall that under tier 3, i was ‘allowed’ to sit with a pupil for 2-3 hours but not then have a cup of tea inside their home on a social basis, afterwards.
Edited by TVR1 on Wednesday 6th January 17:59
jeremyc said:
ut remember a response of: "a barrister posting on an internet forum said it would be OK" may not cut the mustard nor pass the attitude test if stopped by the police.
You may be correct, however a good understanding of the Law, may very well. I’m a nice guy. Any interactions with the Police, generally don't start with WTF do you want? from me. ‘Good morning/afternoon’/how are you today?’ Generally gets me off to a good start.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff