Redundancy question

[db]

Evening all,

I have a query about imminent redundancy, I'm not sure if there's a legal perspective for this or if it's more of a moral point.

After 33 years working for a small family business, the new owner has decided that my role is redundant. I have a lot of knowledge and know-how about our processes and materials that no one else does.
The new owner is trying to extract as much knowledge as possible in a very short time (2nd redundancy consultation is on Wednesday) and I'm not overly keen to help out in the slightest.

Are there any legal reasons that I should provide information/knowledge, or is refusing to share my knowledge more likely to affect any redundancy settlement?

Any advice is appreciated.

[t400ble]

I'd start being forgetfull, or ill

[randlemarcus]

I suspect you will not be INA good place, either legally or morally if you refuse to play ball, and answer the questions asked. No compunction either way to answer questions that aren't asked though

[scoey1001]

Sorry to hear that. Have they mentioned whether they will be open to negotiation or will it be the statutory government payment?

[scottyp123]

If the position or role is no longer needed why would the knowledge on how to do that role still be needed.

It all depends on how likely you are to get another job is doesn't it, if I was in any way threatened with not getting the redundancy if I didn't volunteer the knowledge then I would walk out the doors that minute with absolutely no regrets whatsoever.

[Rivenink]

Is there a particular reason you are being considered for redundency? Is it simply cost cutting, or is it that they've taken a dislike to you for whatever reason?

If the reason is genuinely 'just business', then my advice would be to cough up what you know, get an glowing reference from them, and start looking for the next job.

If its that your face doesn't fit for the new owners... well then it sounds like a very stressful situation. You should take care of your mental health.

[Tony1963]

Does the new owner have other similar businesses that might be taking on some of the capability of ‘your’ company?

I’d just be very slow and economical with info. Once you’ve left, they can always cough up a decent consultancy rate for any help they need.

I’ll assume there’s no union.

[anonymous-user]

Jasey_ said:

My willingness to answer questions would be directly proportionate to the generosity of the redundancy settlement.

If it is statutory minimum I'd be using the phrase "go fk yourself" a lot.

I'd go along with this. Some bean counter has decided to make the cut without realising how key you are to the business.

[db]

scoey1001 said:

Sorry to hear that. Have they mentioned whether they will be open to negotiation or will it be the statutory government payment?

Settlement not discussed yet, hence my caution.
I suspect statutory minimum.

[db]

scottyp123 said:

If the position or role is no longer needed why would the knowledge on how to do that role still be needed.

It all depends on how likely you are to get another job is doesn't it, if I was in any way threatened with not getting the redundancy if I didn't volunteer the knowledge then I would walk out the doors that minute with absolutely no regrets whatsoever.

Apparently, my role is redundant, unless I opt to reduce my hour/salary by 40 - 60%
But not so redundant that I was invited to a Zoom call with our customer to discuss the ongoing role...

[anonymous-user]

db said:

Apparently, my role is redundant, unless I opt to reduce my hour/salary by 40 - 60%
But not so redundant that I was invited to a Zoom call with our customer to discuss the ongoing role...

I believe you're having terrible internet connectivity issues at the moment.

[db]

Rivenink said:

Is there a particular reason you are being considered for redundency? Is it simply cost cutting, or is it that they've taken a dislike to you for whatever reason?

If the reason is genuinely 'just business', then my advice would be to cough up what you know, get an glowing reference from them, and start looking for the next job.

If its that your face doesn't fit for the new owners... well then it sounds like a very stressful situation. You should take care of your mental health.

I believe there are several reasons, but greed appears to be the primary driver.
My role is very job specific in a narrow field. There no similar jobs out there.

[Wombat3]

db said:

scoey1001 said:

Sorry to hear that. Have they mentioned whether they will be open to negotiation or will it be the statutory government payment?

Settlement not discussed yet, hence my caution.

I suspect statutory minimum.

They are not obliged to offer you any more unless its in your contract. Equally they are not entitled to offer you any less.

What you wouldn't want them to do is find a reason to fire you for misconduct.

So if they asked you to write a report on materials or document a process then you'd be pretty silly to refuse to do it.

if you feel that strongly about not helping them then, as above, all you can do is answer the questions they ask, but nothing else.

I'd be more concerned to ask whether, after 33 years, how it is your role is really redundant. i.e. have they followed the correct procedures? How are the tasks that you currently carry out going to be dealt with?

If you think there is any doubt about that then a short consultation with an employment solicitor should not cost that much.

[0a]

Rivenink said:

Is there a particular reason you are being considered for redundency? Is it simply cost cutting, or is it that they've taken a dislike to you for whatever reason?

If the reason is genuinely 'just business', then my advice would be to cough up what you know, get an glowing reference from them, and start looking for the next job.

If its that your face doesn't fit for the new owners... well then it sounds like a very stressful situation. You should take care of your mental health.

I would absolutely agree with this.

I would be looking to play the game, and take the cash - subject to you working the hours you are contracted for. Be the bigger man and move on, and think about yourself from now on rather than adding/subtracting from the business you are leaving. If you are paid for X hours, do X hours in good faith.

Think about the future and not the past.

[anonymous-user]

db said:

I believe there are several reasons, but greed appears to be the primary driver.
My role is very job specific in a narrow field. There no similar jobs out there.

If you have a 'process' role, such as shop floor machine operator then you probably don't have much leverage. If you have a design role or a 'solving customer problems' role then you do have leverage. If it is the latter then offer them your services as a consultant once the role is made redundant, set a rate above £50 per hour and leave it at that. You may be suprised how much knowledge is worth to a business, you may also find yourself out on your arse and driving for Amazon, it all depends on what you know. Fortune favours the brave.

[Wombat3]

0a said:

Rivenink said:

Is there a particular reason you are being considered for redundency? Is it simply cost cutting, or is it that they've taken a dislike to you for whatever reason?

If the reason is genuinely 'just business', then my advice would be to cough up what you know, get an glowing reference from them, and start looking for the next job.

If its that your face doesn't fit for the new owners... well then it sounds like a very stressful situation. You should take care of your mental health.

I would absolutely agree with this.

I would be looking to play the game, and take the cash - subject to you working the hours you are contracted for. Be the bigger man and move on, and think about yourself from now on rather than adding/subtracting from the business you are leaving. If you are paid for X hours, do X hours in good faith.

Think about the future and not the past.

Indeed, but also do not fk up the present!

OP needs to get his head around the fact that unless they have a "Damascene Moment" his time there is done.

How to achieve a "satisfactory exit" is the next task at hand and that rarely happens with conflict.

However, If you think they have not followed the process properly then absolutely take advice and then go from there.

[Rivenink]

db said:

Rivenink said:

Is there a particular reason you are being considered for redundency? Is it simply cost cutting, or is it that they've taken a dislike to you for whatever reason?

If the reason is genuinely 'just business', then my advice would be to cough up what you know, get an glowing reference from them, and start looking for the next job.

If its that your face doesn't fit for the new owners... well then it sounds like a very stressful situation. You should take care of your mental health.

I believe there are several reasons, but greed appears to be the primary driver.
My role is very job specific in a narrow field. There no similar jobs out there.

If greed is the primary driver, and you want to keep your job, then I would suggest that as part of the "knowledge" you transfer, you make the case very plainly and clearly as to why they cannot afford to make you redundant. They may genuinely not understand the value you provide to the business, and underestimate the impact of you not working for them will be.

There are plenty of stories on Reddit and elsewhere that tell this tale of employers finding that the role they made redundent was key to their business' survival.

You really should start to consider what your options are for a new job. Unless you can convince them that they need you, you're going to be looking for one. You current job might be specialised, but that doesn't mean you don't have skills that are transferrable.

[Volvolover]

scottyp123 said:

If the position or role is no longer needed why would the knowledge on how to do that role still be needed.

.

Er because they could quite legally split the duties across a number of other roles ...

And the rest of your advice is also terrible...

[db]

Wombat3 said:

db said:

scoey1001 said:

Sorry to hear that. Have they mentioned whether they will be open to negotiation or will it be the statutory government payment?

Settlement not discussed yet, hence my caution.

I suspect statutory minimum.

They are not obliged to offer you any more unless its in your contract. Equally they are not entitled to offer you any less.

What you wouldn't want them to do is find a reason to fire you for misconduct.

So if they asked you to write a report on materials or document a process then you'd be pretty silly to refuse to do it.

if you feel that strongly about not helping them then, as above, all you can do is answer the questions they ask, but nothing else.

I'd be more concerned to ask whether, after 33 years, how it is your role is really redundant. i.e. have they followed the correct procedures? How are the tasks that you currently carry out going to be dealt with?

If you think there is any doubt about that then a short consultation with an employment solicitor should not cost that much.

First, thanks to all responses. I'm done for the night and hope to clarify other comments later.

My contract was typed on a typewriter and reflects the vagueness of a new-start company of 33 years ago. Something had to be noted, but no one knew what, so it was done as something that had to be done, but without the knowledge of the consequences.

They have followed the correct procedures, apart from the basics in that I don't believe my role is redundant. They have invited me to a Zoom meeting to discuss further development of the new products I have been working on. There has been no mention of how this role will be continued, but that is something I am waiting for an answer for.

Employment lawyer has been contacted and given details, she has said little other than to contact her once settlement details have been given.

One thing she did mention, and I think it might be worth knowing (?) home contents insurance often includes legal cover, including employment law disputes.

[bennno]

Somebody already posted, but situation must be hugely stressful, especially with potential redundancy pending in middle of a pandemic and zero understanding of any proposed settlement package.

Might be making you quite unwell / stressed to point it’s worth talking to a doctor and having a break from work, during which time they won’t be able to contact you.

FYI stat redundancy capped at 20 years. £538 per year x years, 1.5x accelerator for year after you are 41. Any payment beyond that is goodwill which might influence your approach. Be careful about being obstructive as you wouldn’t want to be dismissed / fired etc.so keep all redundancy correspondence printed and in a file. All plus notice period and any holiday accrued.

If they offer you a settlement they should pay for legal costs of its review, if not then it’s arguably more difficult for them to enforce it.

Edited by bennno on Tuesday 26th January 04:00