Motorcycle seat for child - Givi S650
Discussion
Hi All,
I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on fitting a motorcycle child seat to my scooter to take my eldest to school. To give some context I live in zone 2 London and my kid goes to a school with no parking available. I would prefer not to use public transport due to Covid and as I have a car and a scooter this is infinitely cheaper than paying for the tube every day.
So to summarise, I'm not 100% on the law regarding a child on a motorcycle. From my reading, the minimum legal requirements are helmet and reaching the footrests.
It gets more interesting in interpreting the law in relation to fitting a child seat. I have found the following:
Rule 85 of the Highway Code says:
You MUST NOT carry more than one pillion passenger who MUST sit astride the machine on a proper seat. They should face forward with both feet on the footrests. You MUST NOT carry a pillion passenger unless your motorcycle is designed to do so. Provisional licence holders MUST NOT carry a pillion passenger.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 23, MV(DL)R reg 16(6) & CUR reg 102
Section 23 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 says:
Restriction of carriage of persons on motor cycles.
(1)Not more than one person in addition to the driver may be carried on a [F1motor bicycle].
(2)No person in addition to the driver may be carried on a [F1motor bicycle] otherwise than sitting astride the motor cycle and on a proper seat securely fixed to the motor cycle behind the driver’s seat.
(3)If a person is carried on a motor cycle in contravention of this section, the driver of the motor cycle is guilty of an offence.
Regulation 102 of the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 says:
Passengers on motor cycles
102. If any person in addition to the driver is carried astride a two-wheeled motor cycle on a road (whether a sidecar is attached to it or not) suitable supports or rests for the feet shall be available on the motor cycle for that person.
Based on the above do you think that a child seat that is fixed to the scooter seat and that provides stirrups for the feet meets the legal requirements?
I've emailed the manufacturer about this too and the police to question it but would be grateful for any informed opinions.
Many thanks in advance.
I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on fitting a motorcycle child seat to my scooter to take my eldest to school. To give some context I live in zone 2 London and my kid goes to a school with no parking available. I would prefer not to use public transport due to Covid and as I have a car and a scooter this is infinitely cheaper than paying for the tube every day.
So to summarise, I'm not 100% on the law regarding a child on a motorcycle. From my reading, the minimum legal requirements are helmet and reaching the footrests.
It gets more interesting in interpreting the law in relation to fitting a child seat. I have found the following:
Rule 85 of the Highway Code says:
You MUST NOT carry more than one pillion passenger who MUST sit astride the machine on a proper seat. They should face forward with both feet on the footrests. You MUST NOT carry a pillion passenger unless your motorcycle is designed to do so. Provisional licence holders MUST NOT carry a pillion passenger.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 23, MV(DL)R reg 16(6) & CUR reg 102
Section 23 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 says:
Restriction of carriage of persons on motor cycles.
(1)Not more than one person in addition to the driver may be carried on a [F1motor bicycle].
(2)No person in addition to the driver may be carried on a [F1motor bicycle] otherwise than sitting astride the motor cycle and on a proper seat securely fixed to the motor cycle behind the driver’s seat.
(3)If a person is carried on a motor cycle in contravention of this section, the driver of the motor cycle is guilty of an offence.
Regulation 102 of the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 says:
Passengers on motor cycles
102. If any person in addition to the driver is carried astride a two-wheeled motor cycle on a road (whether a sidecar is attached to it or not) suitable supports or rests for the feet shall be available on the motor cycle for that person.
Based on the above do you think that a child seat that is fixed to the scooter seat and that provides stirrups for the feet meets the legal requirements?
I've emailed the manufacturer about this too and the police to question it but would be grateful for any informed opinions.
Many thanks in advance.
How old is the child?
Personally I wouldn't fit a child seat to a bike, but you can do something like use a Kriega R3 to securely tie your child to yourself while on the bike.
Assuming the child is of primary school age then you could also wear one of those belts that have grab handles for pillion passengers. I used one for years when my son was younger.
Personally I wouldn't fit a child seat to a bike, but you can do something like use a Kriega R3 to securely tie your child to yourself while on the bike.
Assuming the child is of primary school age then you could also wear one of those belts that have grab handles for pillion passengers. I used one for years when my son was younger.
Miserablegit said:
I'd be very wary of a child on the back of a motorcycle - depending on the design there is a risk of their feet getting caught in the wheel. I am aware of one reported case which doesn't make it a common occurence but something to be aware of all the same.
I'd be wary of taking a child in a car, depending on the design there's a risk of them banging their head in a crash.Really? One anecdote is your argument?
Many thanks for the responses.
I agree on the point of not wanting to put a child on a motorcycle. He is coming up to 5 but is tall for his age.
To give some context, I'm in zone 2 London in a very anti-car borough with a 1.5 mile uphill walk that is now gridlocked due to the council's "wisdom" in carrying out road closures. The main road in question also serves around 5 different schools so you can imagine what it's like.
In addition to this I have to start work at 9 so walking him to school (or dragging him on the scooter) is going to take too long (plus I also have to do the pick up in the afternoon).
I've considered an electric or standard bicycle but the way I see it the risk of putting him on a bicycle seat is the same or worse than the motorcycle provided I don't drive fast with him on the back (impossible anyway due to traffic). I also have serious concerns about bicycle theft, especially with a brand new electric bicycle and living in London means I don't have the storage to keep it inside.
The only reason I'm considering the scooter is cost/time combined. To use the undergound will cost £6.40 a day for every school day so assuming 22 working days a month £140.80 per month. A child seat costs approx £150 and then I'd need a helmet too so let's say £100 for that or so. This means that after less than 2 months I'd be losing money on the tube.
Valid points on the grab handles and I've also seen harnesses that can be used to strap him onto me while riding.
I think the point about the feet getting caught in the wheel spokes is valid but not a concern due to the scooter design which means his legs will be pushed outwards rather than hang near the wheel.
Scooter in question is a Honda SH300.
I agree on the point of not wanting to put a child on a motorcycle. He is coming up to 5 but is tall for his age.
To give some context, I'm in zone 2 London in a very anti-car borough with a 1.5 mile uphill walk that is now gridlocked due to the council's "wisdom" in carrying out road closures. The main road in question also serves around 5 different schools so you can imagine what it's like.
In addition to this I have to start work at 9 so walking him to school (or dragging him on the scooter) is going to take too long (plus I also have to do the pick up in the afternoon).
I've considered an electric or standard bicycle but the way I see it the risk of putting him on a bicycle seat is the same or worse than the motorcycle provided I don't drive fast with him on the back (impossible anyway due to traffic). I also have serious concerns about bicycle theft, especially with a brand new electric bicycle and living in London means I don't have the storage to keep it inside.
The only reason I'm considering the scooter is cost/time combined. To use the undergound will cost £6.40 a day for every school day so assuming 22 working days a month £140.80 per month. A child seat costs approx £150 and then I'd need a helmet too so let's say £100 for that or so. This means that after less than 2 months I'd be losing money on the tube.
Valid points on the grab handles and I've also seen harnesses that can be used to strap him onto me while riding.
I think the point about the feet getting caught in the wheel spokes is valid but not a concern due to the scooter design which means his legs will be pushed outwards rather than hang near the wheel.
Scooter in question is a Honda SH300.
Edited by Artsy on Monday 15th March 10:03
f
king Hell! OP are you for real? You want to put a 4 year old kid on the back of a scooter and ride through London. You are beyond mental and need to see someone urgently. Don't you like your daughter or something. You would rather kill your daughter on the back of a motor bike rather than use public transport with a minuscule chance if catching covid and zero chance of dying from it.
I really can't believe I just read this! I have no idea if motorcycle seats are legal but I really hope that for the sake of other children with deranged parents that they are not.
king Hell! OP are you for real? You want to put a 4 year old kid on the back of a scooter and ride through London. You are beyond mental and need to see someone urgently. Don't you like your daughter or something. You would rather kill your daughter on the back of a motor bike rather than use public transport with a minuscule chance if catching covid and zero chance of dying from it.I really can't believe I just read this! I have no idea if motorcycle seats are legal but I really hope that for the sake of other children with deranged parents that they are not.
NGee said:
fking Hell! OP are you for real? You want to put a 4 year old kid on the back of a scooter and ride through London. You are beyond mental and need to see someone urgently. Don't you like your daughter or something. You would rather kill your daughter on the back of a motor bike rather than use public transport with a minuscule chance if catching covid and zero chance of dying from it.
I really can't believe I just read this! I have no idea if motorcycle seats are legal but I really hope that for the sake of other children with deranged parents that they are not.
Not sure then ?king Hell! OP are you for real? You want to put a 4 year old kid on the back of a scooter and ride through London. You are beyond mental and need to see someone urgently. Don't you like your daughter or something. You would rather kill your daughter on the back of a motor bike rather than use public transport with a minuscule chance if catching covid and zero chance of dying from it.I really can't believe I just read this! I have no idea if motorcycle seats are legal but I really hope that for the sake of other children with deranged parents that they are not.
The best way but definitely illegal would be sitting in front of you, like you see abroad.
With a good top box on to act as a back rest and something to hold around your waist he will be the envy off all his mates rocking up to school each day on that.
I was only a few years older when I used to go out on the back off my dads zxr750 and he didn’t use to hang around either.
With a good top box on to act as a back rest and something to hold around your waist he will be the envy off all his mates rocking up to school each day on that.
I was only a few years older when I used to go out on the back off my dads zxr750 and he didn’t use to hang around either.
OP, in your first post you blame covid for coming up with your ludicrous idea. However in your second post you confirm the real reason is that you put a financial value on your daughters life of just a few trips on the underground.
I also notice that in your cost cutting calculations you don't budget for any protective clothing (except helmet). Maybe you weren't going to bother with any of them either.
I also notice that in your cost cutting calculations you don't budget for any protective clothing (except helmet). Maybe you weren't going to bother with any of them either.
NGee said:
OP, in your first post you blame covid for coming up with your ludicrous idea. However in your second post you confirm the real reason is that you put a financial value on your daughters life of just a few trips on the underground.
I also notice that in your cost cutting calculations you don't budget for any protective clothing (except helmet). Maybe you weren't going to bother with any of them either.
It’s 1.5 miles at 20mph, he’s not entering the TTI also notice that in your cost cutting calculations you don't budget for any protective clothing (except helmet). Maybe you weren't going to bother with any of them either.
NGee said:
So nobodies been knocked off a motorbike/scooter doing 20mph through London?
What about knocked down crossing the road?Tube crash?
Everything has risks, you choose what is acceptable to yourself.
The op knows the risk and has deemed them acceptable to him and his child.
You may find the risk unacceptable so don’t take your child to school on one.
NGee said:
OP, in your first post you blame covid for coming up with your ludicrous idea. However in your second post you confirm the real reason is that you put a financial value on your daughters life of just a few trips on the underground.
I also notice that in your cost cutting calculations you don't budget for any protective clothing (except helmet). Maybe you weren't going to bother with any of them either.
Bit of a drama queen aren't we?I also notice that in your cost cutting calculations you don't budget for any protective clothing (except helmet). Maybe you weren't going to bother with any of them either.
NGee said:
fking Hell! OP are you for real? You want to put a 4 year old kid on the back of a scooter and ride through London. You are beyond mental and need to see someone urgently. Don't you like your daughter or something. You would rather kill your daughter on the back of a motor bike rather than use public transport with a minuscule chance if catching covid and zero chance of dying from it.
I really can't believe I just read this! I have no idea if motorcycle seats are legal but I really hope that for the sake of other children with deranged parents that they are not.
Calm down petalking Hell! OP are you for real? You want to put a 4 year old kid on the back of a scooter and ride through London. You are beyond mental and need to see someone urgently. Don't you like your daughter or something. You would rather kill your daughter on the back of a motor bike rather than use public transport with a minuscule chance if catching covid and zero chance of dying from it.I really can't believe I just read this! I have no idea if motorcycle seats are legal but I really hope that for the sake of other children with deranged parents that they are not.
This is considered quite normal for millions of people, don't you think you may be overreacting ever so slightly?
I used to run my 2 girls (who were 5 and 7 at the time) to school on my motorbike into Alicante everyday (not at the same time), they loved it and it beat sitting in traffic for a hour every morning.
Edited by Jazoli on Tuesday 16th March 14:23
Love that the gadgie has the helmet.
Top box idea... Genius
IIRC there is no mimimum age, but you must wear a properly fitted and appropriately marked helmet - getting one that small would be challenging. Not sure a barbie princess one is considered legal if stopped - and you're bound to be.
You're probably safer on a bike in reality - most drivers tend to be a little more careful around bikes with a kiddy seat.
Top box idea... Genius
IIRC there is no mimimum age, but you must wear a properly fitted and appropriately marked helmet - getting one that small would be challenging. Not sure a barbie princess one is considered legal if stopped - and you're bound to be.
You're probably safer on a bike in reality - most drivers tend to be a little more careful around bikes with a kiddy seat.
I appreciate the slightly panicked concern coming from some of you but as it's been pointed out elsewhere, we are talking walking pace (maybe 20mph at best) over 1.5 miles.
I have my concerns too but it seems to be the easiest solution available at the moment other than sitting in my car every morning getting stuck in traffic that is just getting worse.
I also agree that there have been more bicycle accidents along the same stretch of road but I don't see anyone ever complaining about kids on the back of parents' bicycles which I consider significantly more dangerous.
For the record, I am not ever going to (or even be able to) exceed the speed of a bicycle in any case...
I have my concerns too but it seems to be the easiest solution available at the moment other than sitting in my car every morning getting stuck in traffic that is just getting worse.
I also agree that there have been more bicycle accidents along the same stretch of road but I don't see anyone ever complaining about kids on the back of parents' bicycles which I consider significantly more dangerous.
For the record, I am not ever going to (or even be able to) exceed the speed of a bicycle in any case...
Artsy said:
I appreciate the slightly panicked concern coming from some of you but as it's been pointed out elsewhere, we are talking walking pace (maybe 20mph at best) over 1.5 miles.
I have my concerns too but it seems to be the easiest solution available at the moment other than sitting in my car every morning getting stuck in traffic that is just getting worse.
I also agree that there have been more bicycle accidents along the same stretch of road but I don't see anyone ever complaining about kids on the back of parents' bicycles which I consider significantly more dangerous.
For the record, I am not ever going to (or even be able to) exceed the speed of a bicycle in any case...
It’s London, loads of people have kids on the back seats of bicycles. It really isn’t a big deal.I have my concerns too but it seems to be the easiest solution available at the moment other than sitting in my car every morning getting stuck in traffic that is just getting worse.
I also agree that there have been more bicycle accidents along the same stretch of road but I don't see anyone ever complaining about kids on the back of parents' bicycles which I consider significantly more dangerous.
For the record, I am not ever going to (or even be able to) exceed the speed of a bicycle in any case...
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