I apparently own a stolen car. DVLA / PNC question

[andy43]

Wondering if anybody's experienced this before?
Bought my car in July 2020 - from a very reputable dealer before you think this is dodgy!

Recently tried to put a private plate on the car and have had a letter and my documents sent back from DVLA refusing :

DVLA said:

According to our records the recipient vehicle has been stolen and not recovered. Our records show the vehicle was stolen on 5/3/19. Please contact your local police station to update our systems in order for us to process your application.

Between 5/3/19 and today it's changed hands twice, had a private plate put on and removed, and been HPI'd at least three times (latest yesterday) - all clear. At least three V5s have been issued since 2019, car has been taxed, insured, everything - and no mention of it being stolen.
DVLA helpfully couldn't 'online chat' about this so after a couple of hours on the phone it appears there is nothing they can do - they cannot remove the stolen marker as it originates from the police when they put it into their PNC database.
What they did confirm is the 2019 stolen marker has been put on the car since my V5 was issued in August last year!?

I therefore had to go and waste the police's time yesterday and at the station desk they've confirmed the PNC is clear and always has been.
Police also checked an old private plate that was removed on the same date as the supposed theft in 2019 - again, all clear. There is no police record of this car having been stolen. They can't remove a PNC stolen marker as there literally isn't one there to remove.
DVLA again today have said nothing they can do and to get in touch with the Police IT department

So I've just sent Manchester police a message via their website asking if their PNC IT dept can have a look at it - I've got no other option. Really don't like wasting their time but I now have a car that to all intents and purposes is unsellable as the DVLA won't issue anything, V5 etc, until the marker is removed by the police... who don't have a marker on their system.

First world problems but does anybody know how the PNC system works?
What am I missing?
Got an email address for the police IT dept anybody?
Help

[ashenfie]

Maybe. you have to ask the Police to Add a PNC and then the next day they can remove it and you will be all clear?

[edthefed]

I doubt very much that there is a "Police IT" dept at GMP that can help...Police IT dept deal with internal systems.

Whilst Police forces can create lost / stolen reports on PNC they cannot update other records like reg keeper etc.

When a lost / stolen report is created it also creates a unique ref number that identifies the force / crime ref number although of course PNC isnt showing this.

I would be tempted to try and contact the GMP PNC bureau or similar if they have one. Or try and get through to the DVLA Police Liason dept. You might be best doing this in person by visiting a nick and asking them to make contact on your behalf.
Also get an incident ref confirming PNC is clear which you can quote to DVLA

[Sheepshanks]

Think I'd be trying my MP.

[Jaykay495]

I'm about as far away from a GDPR guru as its possible to get, however, it seems that the data that DVLA hold on this vehicle is inaccurate.

If you've satisfied yourself the car isn't stolen or shown as such on PNC, then i'm not sure there is much more the Police can help you with.

DVLA however, should be able to follow their audit-trail back to where the stolen marker started from. At some point, it must be recorded in the DVLA system as to why the car has a stolen marker, namely a Police Force and a crime reference / incident number or similar. From there, a small amount of work on DVLA's part should level things out again.

If you feel you've already exhausted options via calls to DVLA, then perhaps a formal complaint to them regarding them holding inaccurate data might get the cogs turning.

[Bigends]

PNC transactions only leave a trail on the system for 11 months, so a stolen report from March 2019 will no longer exist. If Police have already checked the OP's reg number and there is no trace of any stolen report then this may well be a DVLA error.

Police can carry out a simple check which will raise all transactions back to last April, which may reveal something

Edited by Bigends on Thursday 25th March 11:18

[TonyRPH]

Is it possible that the marker has been placed against the VIN number rather than the registration plate?

[LeoSayer]

Have you discussed with the dealer who sold you the car?

[Bigends]

TonyRPH said:

Is it possible that the marker has been placed against the VIN number rather than the registration plate?

Possible - had thought of that but the cars been through a number of transactions recently without sounding any alarms.

If the car was unregistered at the time it was stolen, or not carrying registration plates then the stolen report placed against the engine / chassis number so that may be an avenue Police can explore.

[BrettMRC]

The DVLA can do wrong.

[38911]

Surely the DVLAs response should be for them to contact the Police to report someone trying to register a stolen car, rather than telling the person to go to the Police? I mean, what if it was genuinely a stolen car - surely they wouldn't be telling the person potentially complicit in the crime to go to the Police because there's "nothing more they can do"?!?

Either way, my money is on DVLA screw up.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

I'll go with some kind of DVLA screwup too. Maybe something to do with a different car bearing one of the private plates being stolen rather than this actual car in question having been stolen at some point.

[andy43]

Oooh this is fun. Been going since 830am, plus yesterday afternoon for a few hours. 90% of time spent is on hold.
Thank you for all the advice, in particular Armchair expert - I read that out virtually word for word to the DVLA. And then asked for their name for the complaint

It appears (after another 2-3 hours with DVLA and another police station trip) that the private plate that was taken off the car when I bought it in 2020 may have been on another car that was stolen not during a period when that private plate was on it. Following? I'm not.
For some reason the PNC information logged to the 2019 theft has gone via the removed private plate and been linked to my car which also 'touched' the same registration plate at some point.

My guess is the police entered the reg as stolen in 2019 and just clicked 'nicked' without checking manufacturer/colour etc. How this has 'appeared' two years after the alleged theft I have no idea. The plate was on my car from roughly august 2019 through to mid 2020 - so after the March 2019 theft. Dealer reckons my previous owner may not even have owned this plate in March '19. Previous car and plate owner has never experienced a theft.

My next stop now is to go back to the police station for a third time with all my docs and ask them to do a PNC on the suspect private plate. I'm hoping that'll throw something up. I'll let you know
Fuuuun.

[gmasterfunk]

Can you hpi it?

[Sebring440]

andy43 said:

and been HPI'd at least three times (latest yesterday) - all clear.

gmasterfunk said:

Can you hpi it?

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

If the guy had this private plate on a car that got stolen (eg AAA 123) which was never recovered, then through whichever means could have transferred his private plate onto his new replacement car. This would probably mean that as well as a legitimate car displaying AAA 123, there will still technically be an outstanding stolen vehicle also attributed to the number plate AAA 123. I can see where the confusion could come into it especially where the DVLA are concerned.

[andy43]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Thanks
But my newest theory failed on the third visit

Private plate I asked to be PNC'd (on my third and very final visit before arrest according to the helpful but now fed up desk bobby) is also PNC clear.
As is a misspelt plate using a 'One' instead of a capital 'i'. All clear. Four plates checked now, no thefts. Police are done.

Soo, back to the DVLA call-waiting centre of hell.
Another call, another 45 minutes and "Computer says nicked. We can't change it, only the police can".
Ah, the police, crimefighters, peacekeepers, covid-law monitors, murderer-arresters - those police. Just sitting about eating donuts waiting for dumb questions on computer data fkups...

However this DVLA guy was slightly helpful and I've now managed to 'escalate' it to DVLA's 'We might have hit the wrong key' department who will get back to me within 6-8 weeks. Yay.

I'll write a clear and chronological letter to DVLA. Not now, I'll do it when I've calmed down. I'll send the letter, the V5, the retention cert, their original 'it's stolen' letter (now with a clear IT'S NOT NICKED written on it by the police, all signed, stamped and dated), two HPI reports and finally a copy email from my only online police-contacting attempt which just says
"I have checked PNC and this vehicle is not showing as stolen. I think DVLA will have made a mistake".
I may go over that with a highlighter.

Thanks all for the input, further updates to follow around mid-May...

[FunkyNige]

Would it help if I came round and actually stole your car?
Then you report it stolen, I leave it somewhere, you recover it and the stolen marker gets taken off

[andy43]

FunkyNige said:

Would it help if I came round and actually stole your car?
Then you report it stolen, I leave it somewhere, you recover it and the stolen marker gets taken off

That might be easier...
It's this one.

Keys are in tailpipe

[mac96]

There's going to be a long list of suspects.....