Dissolving a trust, problem trustee
Discussion
Hi all, hoping for a bit of PH wisdom.
I am trying to dissolve a trust that was setup for a property many years ago as part of intestate proceedings. As part of this, the solicitor at the time also became a trustee as there were children under 18 involved (all beneficiaries are now over 18).
We have been in contact with the solicitor who is the trustee to agree the dissolution of the trust but they are basically playing silly buggers indicating they deserve more than expenses for signing a document.
I have no idea how to deal with this but it certainly doesn't feel right so any suggestions on how to proceed would be appreciated.
Thanks.
I am trying to dissolve a trust that was setup for a property many years ago as part of intestate proceedings. As part of this, the solicitor at the time also became a trustee as there were children under 18 involved (all beneficiaries are now over 18).
We have been in contact with the solicitor who is the trustee to agree the dissolution of the trust but they are basically playing silly buggers indicating they deserve more than expenses for signing a document.
I have no idea how to deal with this but it certainly doesn't feel right so any suggestions on how to proceed would be appreciated.
Thanks.
What are the legal responsibilities of a trustee?
Is a trustee allowed to claim fees/costs?
If so how are they set and logged?
What actual reason for the claim is the solicitor giving? If it is for specific things done and if so is he supposed to communicate this with fellow trustees and get agreement before acting?
I doubt if a trustee can act alone without consultation with the others. Correct me if wrong as I am not a legal pro.
Is a trustee allowed to claim fees/costs?
If so how are they set and logged?
What actual reason for the claim is the solicitor giving? If it is for specific things done and if so is he supposed to communicate this with fellow trustees and get agreement before acting?
I doubt if a trustee can act alone without consultation with the others. Correct me if wrong as I am not a legal pro.
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/topics/regulation...
Ask how they’re acting in the best interests of their clients, and in a way that upholds trust and confidence in the solicitor’s profession, by attempting to hold the beneficiaries to ransom for additional costs / fees.
Or tell us what they’re wanting to charge thousands of pounds to do, on the off chance it’s justifiable…
Ask how they’re acting in the best interests of their clients, and in a way that upholds trust and confidence in the solicitor’s profession, by attempting to hold the beneficiaries to ransom for additional costs / fees.
Or tell us what they’re wanting to charge thousands of pounds to do, on the off chance it’s justifiable…
I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye. Ask the trustee politely what formalities or filings are required to be taken by them to close the trust and transfer the property to a nominated recipient. Do they need to prepare trust accounts or undertake tax compliance? Closing trusts are rarely simple acts with no consequences. Sometimes closing a trust is the dumbest long term tax planning crime a family can inflict upon themselves. There is an old trustees' tax planning adage..."the best settlor is a dead settlor".
If all beneficiaries have vested interests, are adult and sui juris (ie not under any mental disability) then they can unanimously terminate a trust under the rule of Saunders v Vautier. It should be an instruction signed by them all.
Go get professional advice, or better still, take off any fees reticent blinkers and engage with your trustee to understand what needs to be done to close a property holding (possibly probate Court supervised) trust....and whether it is in the family interests to do so.
If all beneficiaries have vested interests, are adult and sui juris (ie not under any mental disability) then they can unanimously terminate a trust under the rule of Saunders v Vautier. It should be an instruction signed by them all.
Go get professional advice, or better still, take off any fees reticent blinkers and engage with your trustee to understand what needs to be done to close a property holding (possibly probate Court supervised) trust....and whether it is in the family interests to do so.
The probability is the solicitor already on the case is dealing properly with his responsibilities and will reasonably expect to be paid for his time. Things are very rarely as straightforward as "just signing a piece of paper". If you get advice from a different solicitor as well you'll almost certainly end up paying twice for something you need only pay for once.
HocusPocus said:
I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye. Ask the trustee politely what formalities or filings are required to be taken by them to close the trust and transfer the property to a nominated recipient. Do they need to prepare trust accounts or undertake tax compliance? Closing trusts are rarely simple acts with no consequences. Sometimes closing a trust is the dumbest long term tax planning crime a family can inflict upon themselves. There is an old trustees' tax planning adage..."the best settlor is a dead settlor".
If all beneficiaries have vested interests, are adult and sui juris (ie not under any mental disability) then they can unanimously terminate a trust under the rule of Saunders v Vautier. It should be an instruction signed by them all.
Go get professional advice, or better still, take off any fees reticent blinkers and engage with your trustee to understand what needs to be done to close a property holding (possibly probate Court supervised) trust....and whether it is in the family interests to do so.
Your suspicions are probably correct but not going to post the full story, maybe later. The amount of work is known and I am quite happy to pay costs for the time required but not when they are making up random numbers and not even sticking to the first random number alluded to. If it was a straight transaction, the price is price and should be stuck to but that is not happening.If all beneficiaries have vested interests, are adult and sui juris (ie not under any mental disability) then they can unanimously terminate a trust under the rule of Saunders v Vautier. It should be an instruction signed by them all.
Go get professional advice, or better still, take off any fees reticent blinkers and engage with your trustee to understand what needs to be done to close a property holding (possibly probate Court supervised) trust....and whether it is in the family interests to do so.
In the legal world one usually gets what one pays for.....expertise for getting it right is never cheap. If you are being charged less than £300p/h for decent trust solicitor work, then count yourself lucky. Trusts are possibly one of the most complex areas of law to practise in, full of legal/tax trap doors. The landscape is usually multi-dimensional, eg if beneficiaries are not all UK resident, have different financial circumstances, more than one generation have vested interests, old, infirm, disabled etc etc. Fixing a f
k up is eye watering expensive......often big remortgage levels.
Even my local VW garage charges £110+VAT per hour for mechanic time.....and spanners do not have university degrees plus minimum 3 years post degree training just to start their careers.
Clearly the costs estimate still irks you, so just talk with the lawyer who will offer an explanation.
No one who knows the first thing about the law of equity would go on the Internet offering technical solutions to your type of situation or slag your lawyer for charging for his/her time. As I posted before, it should not be a given that termination is a good idea or in the long term interests of the beneficiaries. Finding the correct solution is for experts only.....even if the layman might perceive it as simples.
k up is eye watering expensive......often big remortgage levels. Even my local VW garage charges £110+VAT per hour for mechanic time.....and spanners do not have university degrees plus minimum 3 years post degree training just to start their careers.
Clearly the costs estimate still irks you, so just talk with the lawyer who will offer an explanation.
No one who knows the first thing about the law of equity would go on the Internet offering technical solutions to your type of situation or slag your lawyer for charging for his/her time. As I posted before, it should not be a given that termination is a good idea or in the long term interests of the beneficiaries. Finding the correct solution is for experts only.....even if the layman might perceive it as simples.
Your solicitor's charges should be transparent and detailed in accordance with the SRA. You are entitled to know what you are being asked to pay for.
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/public/for-public...
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/public/for-public...
This is a testamentary trust matter, so the OP is not the lawyer's "client".
OP is not the settlor/testator, but probably just one amongst a class of beneficiaries. Trustees should act independently in accordance with the provisions of the trust deed and any relevant court order/applicable law and should consider the interests of the entire class of beneficiaries. Trustees should not normally take "instructions" from just one beneficiary.......could that explain OP's apparent frustration they do not simply do his bidding?
OP is not the settlor/testator, but probably just one amongst a class of beneficiaries. Trustees should act independently in accordance with the provisions of the trust deed and any relevant court order/applicable law and should consider the interests of the entire class of beneficiaries. Trustees should not normally take "instructions" from just one beneficiary.......could that explain OP's apparent frustration they do not simply do his bidding?
HocusPocus said:
This is a testamentary trust matter, so the OP is not the lawyer's "client".
OP is not the settlor/testator, but probably just one amongst a class of beneficiaries. Trustees should act independently in accordance with the provisions of the trust deed and any relevant court order/applicable law and should consider the interests of the entire class of beneficiaries. Trustees should not normally take "instructions" from just one beneficiary.......could that explain OP's apparent frustration they do not simply do his bidding?
Thanks for the clear explanation.OP is not the settlor/testator, but probably just one amongst a class of beneficiaries. Trustees should act independently in accordance with the provisions of the trust deed and any relevant court order/applicable law and should consider the interests of the entire class of beneficiaries. Trustees should not normally take "instructions" from just one beneficiary.......could that explain OP's apparent frustration they do not simply do his bidding?
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