Question regarding works vehicle
Discussion
Hi all
The company I work for run some vans. Mainly Luton's with a few Merc Sprinters. Around 9 vehicles in total. Most of them are past their best and knackered.
Our H&S people have said for a while now that drivers need to fill in a vehicle check sheet to check for basic faults, and log anything found.
I was having a look at some of these today and noticed some faults logged for one of our vans, these being:
Fuel gauge not working
Hand brake not holding on steeper hills
Some issue with a turbo pipe ( assume it's down on power or MIL on)
I informed our transport coordinator who is working from home, as these seem quite serious faults to me.
His response was that these faults have been noted and he & H&S have asked drivers that when faults are reported to them, they do not then need to keep logging them on their daily check sheets.
I questioned whether these faults are in the pipeline to be fixed or not, and he said no because to fix the fuel gauge was too expensive and the handbrake " wasn't a major problem as it holds on all but steep hills" and that they will Reiterate to our drivers that when faults have been raised, they aren't then to log them on their check sheets going forward but my argument is that if there is no intention of fixing these faults and they get pulled by VOSA or such like, and they aren't logging these faults on their check sheet, then the drivers would be for the high jump?
What is the point in having a check sheet if they are then told to not log the fault again once reported.
If I was the driver, I'd refuse to drive it until faults are fixed because surely it's their neck on the line if they get pulled over in a defective vehicle and not logging faults on their check sheet?
Just wanted to know if I have a valid argument here or am barking up the wrong tree.
Thanks
The company I work for run some vans. Mainly Luton's with a few Merc Sprinters. Around 9 vehicles in total. Most of them are past their best and knackered.
Our H&S people have said for a while now that drivers need to fill in a vehicle check sheet to check for basic faults, and log anything found.
I was having a look at some of these today and noticed some faults logged for one of our vans, these being:
Fuel gauge not working
Hand brake not holding on steeper hills
Some issue with a turbo pipe ( assume it's down on power or MIL on)
I informed our transport coordinator who is working from home, as these seem quite serious faults to me.
His response was that these faults have been noted and he & H&S have asked drivers that when faults are reported to them, they do not then need to keep logging them on their daily check sheets.
I questioned whether these faults are in the pipeline to be fixed or not, and he said no because to fix the fuel gauge was too expensive and the handbrake " wasn't a major problem as it holds on all but steep hills" and that they will Reiterate to our drivers that when faults have been raised, they aren't then to log them on their check sheets going forward but my argument is that if there is no intention of fixing these faults and they get pulled by VOSA or such like, and they aren't logging these faults on their check sheet, then the drivers would be for the high jump?
What is the point in having a check sheet if they are then told to not log the fault again once reported.
If I was the driver, I'd refuse to drive it until faults are fixed because surely it's their neck on the line if they get pulled over in a defective vehicle and not logging faults on their check sheet?
Just wanted to know if I have a valid argument here or am barking up the wrong tree.
Thanks
Firstly I'd point out to the 'transport co-ordinator' that should an incident occur related to one of the faults he would be held liable by police and/or HSE.
Similarly if a driver takes a vehicle onto the road knowing it's in a dangerous condition, he would also have a liability, assuming he survives any crash.
Finally keep a copy of all correspondence off site as in your home. This is technically known as 'covering your arse'.
Similarly if a driver takes a vehicle onto the road knowing it's in a dangerous condition, he would also have a liability, assuming he survives any crash.
Finally keep a copy of all correspondence off site as in your home. This is technically known as 'covering your arse'.
Is the driver check sheet a VOSA requirement or an internal company H&S requirement?
If it's the former then I completely agree with you. if it's the latter and it's only a company policy thing (ie no laws are being broken) then , for the faults that you've mentioned I'd be prepared to drive it.
If it's the former then I completely agree with you. if it's the latter and it's only a company policy thing (ie no laws are being broken) then , for the faults that you've mentioned I'd be prepared to drive it.
Handbrake could be an MOT failure couldn’t it?
When I used to work as a driver I would refuse to take anything out that wasn’t road legal. It’s my driving licence at the end of the day.
Worth pointing out that if they allow a non road legal van out and there is an incident. That person could be looking at a use/cause/permit offence as well as the driver.
Edit - I’d keep logging the issues on the work sheets.
When I used to work as a driver I would refuse to take anything out that wasn’t road legal. It’s my driving licence at the end of the day.
Worth pointing out that if they allow a non road legal van out and there is an incident. That person could be looking at a use/cause/permit offence as well as the driver.
Edit - I’d keep logging the issues on the work sheets.
Edited by LosingGrip on Tuesday 25th May 20:34
Surely the whole point of a check list is that all faults, that are present at the time of the check, are listed. This should be regardless of what may have been listed on a previous check list.
If the fault is present when you do your daily/weekly check, then list it. No point in having a check list if it's not up to date.
If the fault is present when you do your daily/weekly check, then list it. No point in having a check list if it's not up to date.
NGee said:
Surely the whole point of a check list is that all faults, that are present at the time of the check, are listed. This should be regardless of what may have been listed on a previous check list.
If the fault is present when you do your daily/weekly check, then list it. No point in having a check list if it's not up to date.
That was exactly my argument (Pretty much word for word!)If the fault is present when you do your daily/weekly check, then list it. No point in having a check list if it's not up to date.
Keep listing the faults daily. If you can arrange for a friendly MOT station, get them to advise on the parking brake efficiency, and whether it would be an MOT failure. Take a photo of the check sheets.
As has been said, if you know it to be faulty and you drive it, it is your licence on the line.
As has been said, if you know it to be faulty and you drive it, it is your licence on the line.
https://www.commercialmotor.com/news/compliance/ba...
google the accident blame put onto the bosses
A work colleague died in that accident
google the accident blame put onto the bosses
A work colleague died in that accident
x type said:
https://www.commercialmotor.com/news/compliance/ba...
google the accident blame put onto the bosses
A work colleague died in that accident
In that particular case I assume only the company knew of the faults. In this case, because of the log sheets, the drivers know as well. That is the situation here, and the drivers can’t ‘unknow’ that information.google the accident blame put onto the bosses
A work colleague died in that accident
x type said:
https://www.commercialmotor.com/news/compliance/ba...
google the accident blame put onto the bosses
A work colleague died in that accident
In that particular case I assume only the company knew of the faults. In this case, because of the log sheets, the drivers know as well. That is the situation here, and the drivers can’t ‘unknow’ that information.google the accident blame put onto the bosses
A work colleague died in that accident
Edited by Pica-Pica on Tuesday 25th May 22:33
Below is a screengrab from the VOSA catergory of defects for light goods vehicles. Service brake (handbrake) not working as intended, listed as "I", which is an immediate prohibition.
If you get pulled into a checksite by the Police/VOSA on the motorway, and they have a rolling road or brake test incline, then good luck. It'd be a prohibition on the vehicle and likely prosecution of the driver.
If the vehicles are a bag of s
t, the book often stops with the driver, not some transport manager sat at homr.
If you get pulled into a checksite by the Police/VOSA on the motorway, and they have a rolling road or brake test incline, then good luck. It'd be a prohibition on the vehicle and likely prosecution of the driver.
If the vehicles are a bag of s
t, the book often stops with the driver, not some transport manager sat at homr. un1corn said:
Below is a screengrab from the VOSA catergory of defects for light goods vehicles. Service brake (handbrake) not working as intended, listed as "I", which is an immediate prohibition.
If you get pulled into a checksite by the Police/VOSA on the motorway, and they have a rolling road or brake test incline, then good luck. It'd be a prohibition on the vehicle and likely prosecution of the driver.
If the vehicles are a bag of st, the book often stops with the driver, not some transport manager sat at homr.
Service brakes are the main brakes, that is, the primary braking system.If you get pulled into a checksite by the Police/VOSA on the motorway, and they have a rolling road or brake test incline, then good luck. It'd be a prohibition on the vehicle and likely prosecution of the driver.
If the vehicles are a bag of s
t, the book often stops with the driver, not some transport manager sat at homr. My drivers were required to fill in a log every day anything of concern was to be reported to me. As it is ultimately there licence then if they felt the vehicle was unsafe they didn't take it out. I would always back them on this. When I senior manager was desperate for a job to be covered he told me it would be OK to drive a van with a split in the tyre. Not surprisingly when I asked him to but it in writing he backed down.
There are a lot of issues when not carrying on reporting an issue.
Firstly how would any body else know if the issue had been fixed.
It may well make staff think what's the point if nothing gets done. So just use it as tick box.
How would an auditor or the police view these "false sheets.
There are a lot of issues when not carrying on reporting an issue.
Firstly how would any body else know if the issue had been fixed.
It may well make staff think what's the point if nothing gets done. So just use it as tick box.
How would an auditor or the police view these "false sheets.
The parking brake which does not ‘hold on steep hills’ depends on how steep. For passenger cars the requirement is 16% incline (about 1 in 6.2). Worse than that is illegal.
Over the years, the handbrake went from being a ‘secondary’ system, with a higher performance requirement. Now, with dual-circuit service brake systems, it is a parking brake and has a lower performance requirement.
Over the years, the handbrake went from being a ‘secondary’ system, with a higher performance requirement. Now, with dual-circuit service brake systems, it is a parking brake and has a lower performance requirement.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff