NIP to business

[8IKERDAVE]

Lets call this a rhetorical question. If an NIP is sent out and the registered keeper is a business how does this work should the business not be able to identify the driver? Presumably it will go to court and the company will be fined?

I know if the registered keeper is an individual, the fine / points are defaulted to that person if they cannot identify who is driving, however a business does not possess a driving license so I am curious to know what would happen.

[mmm-five]

Many years ago we were warned that whilst company may not be able to be awarded any points, they may still be liable for a fine for failing to name / nominate the driver (or not keeping the required standard of records)...and if the courts believe the the company is hiding the info (or not keeping proper records) they may award points to a company secretary or director.

Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 27th May 13:39

[martinbiz]

The business will receive the fine, generally the maximum, unless they can show good reasons why a their obligation to keep records had failed, obviously no points can be awarded to a ltd co

[SS2.]

If convicted of failing to provide details, it's a big fine for the company. No points.

Technically possible for a director, manager, secretary, etc of the company to be similarly prosecuted if the offence was shown to have been committed with their consent, connivance or neglect.

Also, a company cannot rely on a defence of 'reasonable diligence' (s.172/4) unless it showed that no record of drivers was kept and that it was reasonable not to keep such a record.

[SS2.]

mmm-five said:

...and if the courts believe the the company is hiding the info (or not keeping proper records) they may award points to a company secretary or director.

I'd question this.

There is no offence of not keeping a record of potential drivers. The absence of a drivers' log simply means a company cannot rely on a defence of reasonable diligence unless it demonstrated that it was reasonable to keep or maintain such a log.

Also, if the offence is committed by a company, then no points would be awarded. That would apply even if an officer of the company was prosecuted because of their consent, connivance, neglect, etc.

[martinbiz]

mmm-five said:

Many years ago we were warned that whilst company may not be able to be awarded any points, they may still be liable for a fine for failing to name / nominate the driver (or not keeping the required standard of records)...and if the courts believe the the company is hiding the info (or not keeping proper records) they may award points to a company secretary or director.

Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 27th May 13:39

There is that caveat, but no idea how they would ever prove it. I think AGT mentioned in a previous similar post that he’d never heard of directors or managers being held to account or or prosecuted
Edit to say that a prosecution of the directors would only be if it could be proven that they connived or consented to avoid prosecution
Edit again just seen SS2’s post at the same time

Edited by martinbiz on Thursday 27th May 14:06

Edited by martinbiz on Thursday 27th May 14:13

[drmike37]

I suspect the best course of action is to fess up, pay the fine and move on. This sort of thing can quickly escalate into all kinds of pain if you don’t.

[SS2.]

drmike37 said:

I suspect the best course of action is to fess up, pay the fine and move on. This sort of thing can quickly escalate into all kinds of pain if you don’t.

'Fess up' to what ? The question posed was what happens if the company was unable to confirm who was driving one of its vehicles at a particular time and place.

[agtlaw]

If no reply from company (to s.172 request) then some forces do a search of Companies House and send further s.172 requests to individual directors. I had this situation very recently and it resolved with the company pleading guilty with an agreement not to continue proceedings against the director.

I’ve still not seen an individual director prosecuted using the consent / connivance provision.

[drmike37]

SS2. said:

'Fess up' to what ? The question posed was what happens if the company was unable to confirm who was driving one of its vehicles at a particular time and place.

...to whatever the NIP is for. This question can only be about speeding in a company car?

[SS2.]

drmike37 said:

SS2. said:

'Fess up' to what ? The question posed was what happens if the company was unable to confirm who was driving one of its vehicles at a particular time and place.

...to whatever the NIP is for. This question can only be about speeding in a company car?

But the company doesn't know who was driving.