Burial/cremation disagreement Help needed please?
Discussion
This is a tragic situation.
My daughter's son died recently aged 23. He had a 19 year old girlfriend who produced a son, maybe 3 months ago.
We have found a burial ground some 8 miles away where is ashes could be put and a tree planted. it's a lovely countryside location.
We've just found out that girlfriend (backed by her mother) is arranging to have him buried which we're totally against.
The coronor or an assistant says the girlfriend's rights (because of the newborn) make her next of kin. Obviously my daughter's really upset.
Does anybody have expertise in this area or know who we need to approach to sort this mess out? We already offered the girlfriend a share of the ashes so she could have a plaque more local to her and we agreed to a chapel of rest, a wake, and a service. None of which we would attend but happy for them to organise at our expense.
My daughter's son died recently aged 23. He had a 19 year old girlfriend who produced a son, maybe 3 months ago.
We have found a burial ground some 8 miles away where is ashes could be put and a tree planted. it's a lovely countryside location.
We've just found out that girlfriend (backed by her mother) is arranging to have him buried which we're totally against.
The coronor or an assistant says the girlfriend's rights (because of the newborn) make her next of kin. Obviously my daughter's really upset.
Does anybody have expertise in this area or know who we need to approach to sort this mess out? We already offered the girlfriend a share of the ashes so she could have a plaque more local to her and we agreed to a chapel of rest, a wake, and a service. None of which we would attend but happy for them to organise at our expense.
If they weren't married I can't see how she has any say, to be blunt.
He could have had kids with numerous women, but would only be married once (in the eyes of the law). If all those women had differing wishes, how could it be legally resolved?
The above said - I've got zero experience in this (thankfully) so YMMV.
Sorry for your loss.
He could have had kids with numerous women, but would only be married once (in the eyes of the law). If all those women had differing wishes, how could it be legally resolved?
The above said - I've got zero experience in this (thankfully) so YMMV.
Sorry for your loss.
InitialDave said:
Would a compromise of the "full works" burial, but in the quieter location, be possible?
I don't think so. The girlfriend want's local ie town centre burial so she can visit the grave on foot. Thing is we know that in 12 months time she'll be on her third baby and soon forget about visiting the cemetry.Boosted LS1 said:
She wants a burial and entourage but mainly wants his body in the town centre. We want it somewhere nicer then that where instead of a headstone we can plant a rowan and provide something living.
Sorry for your loss, guess everyone is different (I like your idea & it’s in my wishes for myself). I would perhaps be mindful though of maintaining future relationships.If your family were given the choice to visit the child rather than a tree in future which would you choose.
Grief’s funny, I’m not one for visiting headstones, last time I went was years back to confirm some dates but some folk/families make a big thing of them.
We just had a family death that was a bit of a pantomime to go with the deceased’s wishes. Not what I would’ve done if organising but we’re all different.
Boosted LS1 said:
This is a tragic situation.
My daughter's son died recently aged 23. He had a 19 year old girlfriend who produced a son, maybe 3 months ago.
We have found a burial ground some 8 miles away where is ashes could be put and a tree planted. it's a lovely countryside location.
We've just found out that girlfriend (backed by her mother) is arranging to have him buried which we're totally against.
The coronor or an assistant says the girlfriend's rights (because of the newborn) make her next of kin. Obviously my daughter's really upset.
Does anybody have expertise in this area or know who we need to approach to sort this mess out? We already offered the girlfriend a share of the ashes so she could have a plaque more local to her and we agreed to a chapel of rest, a wake, and a service. None of which we would attend but happy for them to organise at our expense.
From a legal pov for inheritance with no will (intestate) then Personal Representatives who will be called an Administrator - will need to be appointed by the courts. That administrator will then decide what happens to the body (and estate following the law). My daughter's son died recently aged 23. He had a 19 year old girlfriend who produced a son, maybe 3 months ago.
We have found a burial ground some 8 miles away where is ashes could be put and a tree planted. it's a lovely countryside location.
We've just found out that girlfriend (backed by her mother) is arranging to have him buried which we're totally against.
The coronor or an assistant says the girlfriend's rights (because of the newborn) make her next of kin. Obviously my daughter's really upset.
Does anybody have expertise in this area or know who we need to approach to sort this mess out? We already offered the girlfriend a share of the ashes so she could have a plaque more local to her and we agreed to a chapel of rest, a wake, and a service. None of which we would attend but happy for them to organise at our expense.
From my understanding the person appointed will generally be the person first in line to benefit from the Estate which is the child but if they are under 18 they cannot thus its next in line which would be a parent BUT if the estate is held in trust for the child by the childs Mother (the Girlfriend) this could be why they think they will be the administrator for the estate or are mistaken to believe they are in marriage or civil partnership. (there is no such thing as common law wife) You either are in a civil partnership/marriage or you are not.
I would ask the coroner why they believe the GF should be the administrator ? Im not sure they have the power to appoint the administrator -your daughter should apply to become the administrator.
https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/apply-for-...
This has a good explanation https://anthonygold.co.uk/latest/blog/appointment-... with the option for an independent administrator.
Another question may be - is this really his child? if not then there is no possibility of any say of the GF. but that could end up with a can of worms and be a bit overkill depends on the estate (life insurance etc) to be distributed.
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 9th June 13:44
Durzel said:
That's a bit harsh. The fact that she has strong feelings about this suggests she is hurting too.
It might seem harsh but the first baby was from a boyfriend she met when she fell out with my grandson. Her mother also slept with said boyfriend at about the same time. It's her mother who's pulling the strings as the daughter's not all that bright.I'm sure the girlfriends upset and we had thought of setting up a trust fund for the newborn.
Ghastly thing to happen.
Humans are utterly irrational about bodies. My view is that the body or ashes isn't your grandson at all - not the way you remember him. But other people think differently. Just as you are keen to do one thing, the GF is keen to do another.
Legally, I'm sure the status of the GF is "none", especially as the child isn't your grandson's. A short consultation with a decent solicitor would sort it.
But - at the end of the day, does it matter? You can plant a tree in his memory anywhere you want to. What is more valuable at end of the day, the location of some remains, or the possibility that you remain on speaking terms with some people that your grandson liked in the year before his death. That isn't a legal question.
Humans are utterly irrational about bodies. My view is that the body or ashes isn't your grandson at all - not the way you remember him. But other people think differently. Just as you are keen to do one thing, the GF is keen to do another.
Legally, I'm sure the status of the GF is "none", especially as the child isn't your grandson's. A short consultation with a decent solicitor would sort it.
But - at the end of the day, does it matter? You can plant a tree in his memory anywhere you want to. What is more valuable at end of the day, the location of some remains, or the possibility that you remain on speaking terms with some people that your grandson liked in the year before his death. That isn't a legal question.
What an awful situation. With the best will in the world his 19 year old girlfriend is no where close to the emotional loss that your daughter, his mother is facing. Soon enough she’ll (gf) find a way to move forwards with the loss (new partner) in a way a parent could never move on from. I think the teenager is being selfish and her mother should have said that to her.
rxe said:
Legally, I'm sure the status of the GF is "none", especially as the child isn't your grandson's. A short consultation with a decent solicitor would sort it.
I read it as there being two children - one by another man and then the newborn with Boosted's grandson. But agree with your sentiment about having an hour with a solicitor.Sorry for your loss Boosted - it must be a horrible situation to be in, along with everything else that has happened. I hope you manage to resolve things amicably.
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