multiple offences?

[bordseye]

I will admit to being a dopey old sod. The stretch of the M4 near me was for many years a variable limit stretch with big overhead matricx signs indicating the limit. However, after spending literally millions over 3 years to install the gantries, they decided to make it a fixed 50 limit with the small round 50 signs at the side of the road and nothing showing on the overheads. Daytime this is no issue - all traffic slows down and I slow down with it, but last night I was returning home at 11pm in lashing rain and pre-occupied after handing over my boat to its new owner. So I forgot the new limit, no other traffic on the road to remind me, and I didnt notice the new 50 limit signs.

Cant even say what speed I was doing. Likely somewhere in the 65 / 75 or normal motorway speed. Wont be more, could be less. But whatever the speed I did it for maybe 5 miles and at least 4 sets of cameras.

To make matters worse, on the journey out to the boat with the new owner in the car and trying to advise on how to handle the sail back up to Scotland, I did the same thing. Absolutely lashing down with rain so travelling slower but still likely above the 50 limit.

So even before a notice of prosecution arrives, can anyone recommend a really good motoring solicitor? And a quaetion - if you pass through a series of cameras one after the other on the same journey above the limit do you get a series of penalties. Could I get say 4 tickets and an automatic ban?

And yes I know I should have been observant but after decades of travelling the motorways with a 70 limit or with bright emergency signs showing a temporary lower limit, it really is easy just to cruise on.

[anonymous-user]

Yes its one FPN per camera, I got nicked twice on the same stretch of road once. It is easy to accidentally drive at the wrong speed, especially with speed restrictions on sections of the motorway. I didn't think they were that sensitive though, I'd have though anything under 60 would be safe in a 50 zone.

[SS2.]

Newarch said:

Yes its one FPN per camera,

Not if the offences were deemed to have been committed on the same occasion.

Subject to a court not finding reasons to apply a contrary decision, the penalty points attributed for all offences would be the highest number which would have been attributed to one.

[anonymous-user]

SS2. said:

Newarch said:

Yes its one FPN per camera,

Not if the offences were deemed to have been committed on the same occasion.

Subject to a court not finding reasons to apply a contrary decision, the penalty points attributed for all offences would be the highest number which would have been attributed to one.

They must've changed the rules then, I got one going each way in the space of a few hours on the dual carriageway near Monmouth, but that was back in 2007.

[SS2.]

Newarch said:

SS2. said:

Newarch said:

Yes its one FPN per camera,

Not if the offences were deemed to have been committed on the same occasion.

Subject to a court not finding reasons to apply a contrary decision, the penalty points attributed for all offences would be the highest number which would have been attributed to one.

They must've changed the rules then, I got one going each way in the space of a few hours on the dual carriageway near Monmouth, but that was back in 2007.

A few hours apart and in different directions is hardly 'the same occasion', is it ?

If you don't know the answer, it's probably best to keep schtum..

[vaud]

bordseye said:

So even before a notice of prosecution arrives, can anyone recommend a really good motoring solicitor?

AGTlaw

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=...

I doubt there is much he doesn't know about mitigation strategies, process, etc

[CanAm]

Agtlaw is definitely your man.

[anonymous-user]

bordseye said:

But whatever the speed I did it for maybe 5 miles and at least 4 sets of cameras.

Read the above quote. Note several miles and 4 sets of cameras.

SS2. said:

A few hours apart and in different directions is hardly 'the same occasion', is it ?

If you don't know the answer, it's probably best to keep schtum..

If you can't read then don't set forth and try to police the forums...

[Exige77]

Newarch said:

bordseye said:

But whatever the speed I did it for maybe 5 miles and at least 4 sets of cameras.

Read the above quote. Note several miles and 4 sets of cameras.

SS2. said:

A few hours apart and in different directions is hardly 'the same occasion', is it ?

If you don't know the answer, it's probably best to keep schtum..

If you can't read then don't set forth and try to police the forums...

The OP said he did it on the way “there” and on the way “back” ?

[spikyone]

Newarch said:

bordseye said:

But whatever the speed I did it for maybe 5 miles and at least 4 sets of cameras.

Read the above quote. Note several miles and 4 sets of cameras.

It's a single average speed camera zone with multiple cameras. In all likelihood one offence if OP's speed was steady.

Exige77 said:

The OP said he did it on the way “there” and on the way “back” ?

I think he's accepting there will be one offence for on the way there and one on the way back.

[SS2.]

Newarch said:

bordseye said:

But whatever the speed I did it for maybe 5 miles and at least 4 sets of cameras.

Read the above quote. Note several miles and 4 sets of cameras.

And you know for a fact that 'several miles' and '4 sets of cameras' would not be deemed by a court as the same occasion, do you ?

Newarch said:

SS2. said:

A few hours apart and in different directions is hardly 'the same occasion', is it ?

If you don't know the answer, it's probably best to keep schtum..

If you can't read then don't set forth and try to police the forums...

My original comments stands - if you don't know what you're talking about, best keep out of the thread.

Edited by SS2. on Wednesday 7th July 10:11

[anonymous-user]

SS2. said:

Newarch said:

bordseye said:

But whatever the speed I did it for maybe 5 miles and at least 4 sets of cameras.

Read the above quote. Note several miles and 4 sets of cameras.

And you know for a fact that 'several miles' and '4 sets of cameras' would not be deemed by a court as the same occasion, do you ?

Newarch said:

SS2. said:

A few hours apart and in different directions is hardly 'the same occasion', is it ?

If you don't know the answer, it's probably best to keep schtum..

If you can't read then don't set forth and try to police the forums...

My original comments stands - if you don't know what you're talking about, best keep out of the thread.

Edited by SS2. on Wednesday 7th July 10:11

I shouldn't feed the troll, but anyway, I do know what I'm talking about because I have been in a similar situation where I got two FPNs from two closely situated cameras within a few hours of each other. This was nearly fifteen years ago, but I did not think the law had changed since.

[spikyone]

Newarch said:

I shouldn't feed the troll, but anyway, I do know what I'm talking about because I have been in a similar situation where I got two FPNs from two closely situated cameras within a few hours of each other. This was nearly fifteen years ago, but I did not think the law had changed since.

Nobody is trolling. Your situation is different. The OP went through multiple sets of cameras in a single average speed zone. One continuous offence. OP said:

bordseye said:

But whatever the speed I did it for maybe 5 miles and at least 4 sets of cameras.

(snip)

And a quaetion - if you pass through a series of cameras one after the other on the same journey above the limit do you get a series of penalties. Could I get say 4 tickets and an automatic ban?

Your situation was "two closely situated cameras several hours apart". That is not "one after the other on the same journey".

[bordseye]

spikyone said:

I think he's accepting there will be one offence for on the way there and one on the way back.

Should say "hoping" rather than accepting. Two seperate runs through the same 5 mile stretch, one going to the handover, one coming back. In each caes there are maybe 4 or 5 cameras so 8 or 10 cameras in all.

[SS2.]

Newarch said:

SS2. said:

Newarch said:

bordseye said:

But whatever the speed I did it for maybe 5 miles and at least 4 sets of cameras.

Read the above quote. Note several miles and 4 sets of cameras.

And you know for a fact that 'several miles' and '4 sets of cameras' would not be deemed by a court as the same occasion, do you ?

Newarch said:

SS2. said:

A few hours apart and in different directions is hardly 'the same occasion', is it ?

If you don't know the answer, it's probably best to keep schtum..

If you can't read then don't set forth and try to police the forums...

My original comments stands - if you don't know what you're talking about, best keep out of the thread.

I shouldn't feed the troll, but anyway, I do know what I'm talking about because I have been in a similar situation where I got two FPNs from two closely situated cameras within a few hours of each other. This was nearly fifteen years ago, but I did not think the law had changed since.

If you knew the first rule of holes, you wouldn't keep digging.

You certainly know nothing about this topic, that's evident.

[NicheMonkey]

I did the same thing on the M62 a few years ago when the roadworks were on, got 2 NIP's through at the same time for consecutive cameras but when I queried it they said only the first one would apply as its classed as a "continuous offence"

[L_G]

If you get a series of NIPs for going through the roadworks in one direction then the advice is to reply to all of them (naming the driver) in a single envelope with a covering letter asking for them to be considered as a single continuous offence.

Edited by topsey.mod on Thursday 8th July 09:09

[spikyone]

bordseye said:

spikyone said:

I think he's accepting there will be one offence for on the way there and one on the way back.

Should say "hoping" rather than accepting. Two seperate runs through the same 5 mile stretch, one going to the handover, one coming back. In each caes there are maybe 4 or 5 cameras so 8 or 10 cameras in all.

Yes, that's what I meant - you're not claiming it's only one offence total to cover there and back, AIUI. It'll be one continuous offence in each direction. You won't be paying for 8 or 10 offences, but if the system is dumb you might still receive multiple NIPs for each leg, at which point you'd have to get in touch with whoever has issued them.

[SS2.]

bordseye said:

FFS I need assistance not two posters willie waving at each other.

You asked a question.

Do you want incorrect answers to go unchallenged ? More than happy to leave the room, if that's the case.

[Starfighter]

I was told they the term was “continuation of the same offence”. It the speed limit changed or you turned from one road to another then it was not a continuation of the same offence.

In the OPs case the it would appear to be 2 offences (out and return trip) but one offence over several cameras. As the systems are automated and will just issues to NIPs and tickets then a court appearance would likely be needed to sort it all about. The ticket office may be of some help but don’t count on it.

As above, talk to AGT Law.