Advice regarding 35 in a 30, twice

[Muddle238]

Evening all,

Last after a bit of advice, although I’m sure I already know the answer….

My OH got zapped by a fixed camera in early June, 35 in a 30. The car she was driving was a lease car through her work, the NIP went to the lease company who received it on the 9th, but didn’t action the letter until the 21st, stating my OH as the driver and also sending a scanned copy of the NIP to my OH on the 21st also.

She was offered a SAC which she’s currently booked on to, can’t remember the exact date but that’s by the by.

This evening however she received another email from the lease company, another NIP, same location, same camera, 35 again, however the offence was dated for the 19th June, it was received by the lease company on the 23rd June but only actioned today, 12th July.

My guess is that my OH has no options, other than take the 3 points and £100 fine, however I’m a little frustrated that had the lease company actioned the first NIP and notified my OH when they received it, she would have been more aware of the camera. As it turned out, she’d been zapped twice by the time she was notified of even the first offence.

Although I fully expect the PH ribbing, I do wonder if there’s any advice anyone can give on any course of action? Her work car has a speed limiter which she uses religiously, why on these two occasions she’s been speeding past the camera I have no idea, she’s usually very careful with her speed. Obviously limiter or not, she needs to ensure she’s not breaking the limit, especially past a camera but I just can’t help but feel sorry for her; right on the cusp of a NIP and the exact scenario twice within a couple of weeks, despite almost 10 years of a completely clean licence.

Look forward to the ribbing/any responses. Cheers…

[BertBert]

well you know the answer! There is nothing to do other than accept the points unless she wants to have a fight in court which noone in their right mind would do when just caught speeding/

I'm intrigued about the need to use the speed limiter though. I don't know anyone who does that. It's normal to have the ability to keep to speed limits even if we don't want to or make mistakes. Why the use of the limiter? Dare I say it... is some form of extra training a possibly useful thing?

[Heaveho]

I'll leave it to those who enjoy having a go, there'll plenty of them along in a while! Sorry to say I can't see a way around it. Speed awareness course for the first one, 3 points and the fine for the second. Stuck with it by the sounds of it.

[PH User]

There's no issue with using a speed limiter if it helps her, but maybe suggest she uses it all the time.

[Driver101]

I can see why you're expecting a ribbing.

[PH User]

Well you certainly can't blame the lease company, I hope you're not trying to?

[Muddle238]

BertBert said:

well you know the answer! There is nothing to do other than accept the points unless she wants to have a fight in court which noone in their right mind would do when just caught speeding/

I'm intrigued about the need to use the speed limiter though. I don't know anyone who does that. It's normal to have the ability to keep to speed limits even if we don't want to or make mistakes. Why the use of the limiter? Dare I say it... is some form of extra training a possibly useful thing?

Thanks, I thought that would be the case.

Regarding the speed limiter, my take on it is that she finds it less stressful driving through various speed zones, if she’s being tailgated by someone who she can see bearing down on her in the mirrors, the limiter prevents her from sub-consciously speeding up due to the pressure from following drivers, probably stemmed from her first few years of driving in a 106; she was forever tailgated and bullied in that little thing…

[sociopath]

Clean licence for 10 years then caught twice in a short space of time?

I suspect the 10 years is the lucky bit.

[Pica-Pica]

PH User said:

Well you certainly can't blame the lease company, I hope you're not trying to?

As I understand it, there was 10 days between the two offences, so less than the 14 day delivery period that would apply if the NIPs went straight too you. I can’t see that being a get out. 30s have to be sacrosanct (ish), too many hazards, thus too many chances of being done.

[Sebring440]

Muddle238 said:

Her work car has a speed limiter which she uses religiously, why on these two occasions she’s been speeding past the camera I have no idea,

She religiously has the speed limiter set to 30mph? Don't believe you.

And obviously it doesn't work anyway.

[BertBert]

Still think that improving her driving skill is what's needed. I've never felt bullied to speed up when driving small cars. That's not because I'm clever or anything, just doesn't enter my head. If someone is driving too close they are tailgating. Just a non personalised description. They aren't bullying and I don't feel intimidated.

Hope that makes sense, just trying to say that skills can be improved and reaction to the circumstances can be changed. Not blaming, but trying to be helpful

[Muddle238]

Pica-Pica said:

PH User said:

Well you certainly can't blame the lease company, I hope you're not trying to?

As I understand it, there was 10 days between the two offences, so less than the 14 day delivery period that would apply if the NIPs went straight too you. I can’t see that being a get out. 30s have to be sacrosanct (ish), too many hazards, thus too many chances of being done.

Not blaming the lease company for her speeding offences, but I am stating that the tardy timescales they work to, if improved, may have contributed to her being more aware of the camera and potentially therefore her avoiding the second hit. That’s not the same as the lease company being to blame, but they are so lethargic with any paperwork, why anyone would want to lease a car or have a company car is beyond me, so much hassle; but that’s a different rant for another time.

I agree, 30 zones are sacrosanct, especially in residential or built up areas. Personally I’m a bit anal about 30s, they’re 30 for a reason, it usually annoys me when someone comes barrelling up behind me and has the audacity to then tailgate me because I’m not also speeding…

However, the camera in question isn’t in a residential or built up area, it’s just prior to a set of traffic lights, on a DC section of ring road, immediately after which the DC becomes a 50. She says she knows what she’s done, she’s seen queuing traffic in L1, so taken L2 through the junction but in order to make the green lights, sped up slightly in anticipation of the 50. Bam, camera gets her. Why she hasn’t seen the big yellow camera, who knows. When I saw it on Streetview, I struggled to see the justification from a road safety POV for a camera there, the junction is all traffic light controlled, became a 30 down from a 50 about 100 yards prior and goes back to a 50 immediately beyond the lights.

None of this is an excuse for her getting zapped, but I do feel sorry for her; she was devastated with the first NIP, now the second has really knocked her mental wellbeing, a lot going on at the moment for her and this hasn’t helped.

[M12MTR]

The only way to prevent any NIP going elsewhere other than your address..... which could give you early warning to prevent future speeding offences, is to buy and own your cars outright.

In the words of Clarkson "work harder".

[Muddle238]

M12MTR said:

The only way to prevent any NIP going elsewhere other than your address..... which could give you early warning to prevent future speeding offences, is to buy and own your cars outright.

In the words of Clarkson "work harder".

Thanks, but we always buy our cars outright. The car she was using when zapped was a work vehicle she has use of and can use for personal mileage if she wishes. It just so happened she was travelling for work in the work car during the two times she got zapped.

The idea of “working harder” really has no relevance here.

[Captain Answer]

Muddle238 said:

However, the camera in question isn’t in a residential or built up area, it’s just prior to a set of traffic lights, on a DC section of ring road, immediately after which the DC becomes a 50. She says she knows what she’s done, she’s seen queuing traffic in L1, so taken L2 through the junction but in order to make the green lights, sped up slightly in anticipation of the 50. Bam, camera gets her. Why she hasn’t seen the big yellow camera, who knows. When I saw it on Streetview, I struggled to see the justification from a road safety POV for a camera there, the junction is all traffic light controlled, became a 30 down from a 50 about 100 yards prior and goes back to a 50 immediately beyond the lights.

You've stated the reason for the camera in your own description, its there to enforce the 30 in the junction area it is probably rigged as a red light camera too if its close to the light

Limiters work "ok" in some situations, I use mine around Nottingham regularly where there are a lot of average zones but they aren't fool proof - you can still put the throttle down hard and overcome the limiter

[akirk]

you make an interesting point about the psychology of being bullied by other cars - and it is very difficult to fix that, it isn't always that they are bullying - it can simply be that like some humans they have no sense of personal space so come very close - if the vehicle behind is a van then their perception of the distance from above will be different to her perception when a van is blocking out her rear-view mirror.

It is tricky to get someone to not be affected by that, and yes the instinct is to speed up a bit - and that can spiral until you are driving faster than you want to - so her desire to stay under the 30mph speed limit can easily be influenced...

maybe one option is to consciously drive a little bit slower - try aiming for 25mph - accept that others won't like it, they may even be idiots and overtake - but that is their issue not hers as a driver - and then if she does feel pressured she still has contingency... The suggestion above about other training may indeed be helpful, an ADI / coach / someone from IAM or RoSPA may be able to help with the psychology - at the bottom of this it sounds as though she is a good driver who has the right intentions but is being pressured...

[Sheepshanks]

Muddle238 said:

Not blaming the lease company for her speeding offences, but I am stating that the tardy timescales they work to, if improved, may have contributed to her being more aware of the camera and potentially therefore her avoiding the second hit. That’s not the same as the lease company being to blame, but they are so lethargic with any paperwork, why anyone would want to lease a car or have a company car is beyond me, so much hassle; but that’s a different rant for another time.

I don't know what's normal timing with the sending the initial information, but a colleague of mine, in his own car, got zapped 3 times in 2 weeks by the same speed camera near his house before he got the first notice. Driven for 30yrs and never been done before - just had a (or multiple) brain farts. Didn't get offered a speed awareness course so was crapping himself on 9 points for 3yrs - he wouldn't drive anywhere unless he absolutely had to.

I do recall cases where people have been caught loads of times before becoming aware - I think they generally get the points but don't get banned.

[Welshbeef]

I’m dreading when the 20mph limits through Reading come into play.

Alsol20mph limits for all villages/towns etc in Wales 20mph max speed.

We have speed limiters on both cars - when it’s that I’ll be using it for sure.

[geordiepingu]

It may be worth recommending Waze to your OH whether or not she likes to blat past the limit. Speed camera alerts (or in fact over-speed alerts) may well prevent further points on her licence

[Welshbeef]

Not all cars have 20mph on the speedo so it is guessing that speed but when only a 2mph over the speed means a nip it’s hard.