CCTV inside home with carers
Discussion
My google skills are lacking this evening. Got speaking to someone who has a disabled son and requires carers a number of times a day and always over night.
He lives in his own bungalow and an agency are used to provide the care he needs. He has complex learning disabilities.
His parents have set up CCTV cameras in his bungalow so they can keep an eye on him when he doesn’t have carers and also for his piece of mind. The cameras allow them to talk to each other via an app.
The cameras are not in the bathroom or the carers bedroom.
The agency have said they have to come down. Stating it breeches the human rights act (right to a private life).
I can’t see how this fits as if you work at Tesco you have cameras watching you all the time.
Can anyone shed any light on it? The cameras aren’t hidden and staff are aware they are there.
He lives in his own bungalow and an agency are used to provide the care he needs. He has complex learning disabilities.
His parents have set up CCTV cameras in his bungalow so they can keep an eye on him when he doesn’t have carers and also for his piece of mind. The cameras allow them to talk to each other via an app.
The cameras are not in the bathroom or the carers bedroom.
The agency have said they have to come down. Stating it breeches the human rights act (right to a private life).
I can’t see how this fits as if you work at Tesco you have cameras watching you all the time.
Can anyone shed any light on it? The cameras aren’t hidden and staff are aware they are there.
Whose right to private life? If the parents are the guardians of the person with the learning disabilities, then the decision rests with them and it's nothing to do with the agency. The carers are there to work, so it's their paid work life, not their private life. Therefore, again, the cameras are nothing to do with the agency. They're being paid to do a job and they're being monitored while doing it, like many others are. They'd better get used to it.
poo at Paul's said:
Get new carers. I think they can ask about what you do with the data etc, and you must safeguard that, but you're allowed CCTV in your own gaff, it's a private place not public.
From what I understand there are too many agencies that can offer the support their son needs. So they are kinda stuck with them. rgf100 said:
Sounds like the carers are live-in, though, which might change things?
That’s what I’m not sure about. But the cameras aren’t in the carers bedroom where they sleep. QuickQuack said:
Whose right to private life? If the parents are the guardians of the person with the learning disabilities, then the decision rests with them and it's nothing to do with the agency. The carers are there to work, so it's their paid work life, not their private life. Therefore, again, the cameras are nothing to do with the agency. They're being paid to do a job and they're being monitored while doing it, like many others are. They'd better get used to it.
100% this.There is no obligation or requirement to take down the cameras.
Retroman said:
100% this.
There is no obligation or requirement to take down the cameras.
If it's a live-in overnight carer, then they're not just being monitored while 'working'. They're monitored walking down the hallway for a piss in the middle of the night, or chilling out on the sofa after the caree has gone to bed. A camera with a microphone could easily pick up a phone conversation made in their bedroom. There is no obligation or requirement to take down the cameras.
I have no idea what's actually right, but it's not as straightforward as a camera monitoring the kitchen while the cleaner's in for an hour.
I know it's in Ireland, but the GDPR regs are as far as I know the same as we adopted the EU GDPR in the UK
This case Irish Times Article would suggest that it most certainly is legal, and the judge gave the organisation who sued the family a good pasting.
This case Irish Times Article would suggest that it most certainly is legal, and the judge gave the organisation who sued the family a good pasting.
We did exactly the same thing when looking after my ageing Mother, we just made the carers and their company aware there were cameras in operation and never had an issue.
If the cameras record then you might have a data protection issue, particularly if Audio is captured, even though its within a private dwelling to which DP regulations do not apply. You are potentially recording members of the public going about their duty and therefore they could have a right to know what images you are recording and storing and for how long etc. Take a look at the information commissioners office website www.ico.gov.uk its got a lot of information for CCTV users. I would imagine that, so long as signs are present to the effect that CCTV is operating, you have nothing further to worry about. As mentioned by others, it's no different to a normal workplace using CCTV, the only difference is the companies are probably registered with the ICO for this purpose.
Worst case is you have to become a 'data protection officer' and register with the ICO for a small fee. If you did so and followed the rules, you are then deemed to be following the letter of the law and the agency can do nothing about it whatsoever.
If the cameras record then you might have a data protection issue, particularly if Audio is captured, even though its within a private dwelling to which DP regulations do not apply. You are potentially recording members of the public going about their duty and therefore they could have a right to know what images you are recording and storing and for how long etc. Take a look at the information commissioners office website www.ico.gov.uk its got a lot of information for CCTV users. I would imagine that, so long as signs are present to the effect that CCTV is operating, you have nothing further to worry about. As mentioned by others, it's no different to a normal workplace using CCTV, the only difference is the companies are probably registered with the ICO for this purpose.
Worst case is you have to become a 'data protection officer' and register with the ICO for a small fee. If you did so and followed the rules, you are then deemed to be following the letter of the law and the agency can do nothing about it whatsoever.
Assuming there are no issues or concerns relating to the care staff, and the cameras are genuinely in place only for the purposes of monitoring and communicating with the resident when he's alone and carers aren't present, could there be an easy solution in simply having an on/off facility of some description which the care staff could operate when they arrive and leave?
The GDPR stuff is pretty brutal, I believe you can't record into the street with domestic external CCTV etc because of the same set of regs?
The GDPR stuff is pretty brutal, I believe you can't record into the street with domestic external CCTV etc because of the same set of regs?
The care company are talking rubbish as those cameras are there to assist in the care of the service user.
As long as the cameras are not in the sleep over room or the bathroom there should be no decency issues.
The service user obviously requires a very high level of support so the cameras shouldn’t even be mentioned as an issue.
Everyone knows they are there and the reason for them so if the care company won’t accept them get the lads parents to get another care provider who is more understanding about his daily needs.
Hope this all works out as I know from experience that care companies standards are so varied it is frightening.
The service user should have a social worker who can be the middle person for sorting this issue which will reduce any stress on the parents.
As long as the cameras are not in the sleep over room or the bathroom there should be no decency issues.
The service user obviously requires a very high level of support so the cameras shouldn’t even be mentioned as an issue.
Everyone knows they are there and the reason for them so if the care company won’t accept them get the lads parents to get another care provider who is more understanding about his daily needs.
Hope this all works out as I know from experience that care companies standards are so varied it is frightening.
The service user should have a social worker who can be the middle person for sorting this issue which will reduce any stress on the parents.
rgf100 said:
If it's a live-in overnight carer, then they're not just being monitored while 'working'. They're monitored walking down the hallway for a piss in the middle of the night, or chilling out on the sofa after the carer has gone to bed. A camera with a microphone could easily pick up a phone conversation made in their bedroom.
I have no idea what's actually right, but it's not as straightforward as a camera monitoring the kitchen while the cleaner's in for an hour.
Yes, it's impossible to make blanket statements saying it's all OK.I have no idea what's actually right, but it's not as straightforward as a camera monitoring the kitchen while the cleaner's in for an hour.
If anyone wanted to constantly video record me at work I'd tell them to do one. There's already a major fuss about employers potentially monitoring the screen time activities of employees "working from home".
Even if the householder does have the right to keep the cameras the carer's employer could be in breach of the carer's employment contract. It all needs to be carefully balanced.
LosingGrip said:
Can anyone shed any light on it? The cameras aren’t hidden and staff are aware they are there.
As long as the staff are aware they are there then they should be fine. I presume they were put on notice that cameras were installed. You can record staff at work (just for example look at all the CCTV in shops etc over tills in pubs and whatnot)
I work in social care, many places in which I work have cctv in service user's homes, bedrooms etc. I think the 'right to private life' the agency may be referring to is that of the son. He has, rightly, the right to privacy in his home, especially if he requires personal care. If he's over 18, he has to consent to the cameras. If he's unable to consent as he lacks mental capacity, a best interests meeting needs to take place with the son, his parents and other relevant professionals. If they agree that the cameras are in his best interest and it's the least restrictive option, there's no legal reason why they can't have cctv. I've no idea how it works if he's under 18, I only work with adult service users. Speak to the social worker and take it from there.
HTH
HTH
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