Consumer rights law fun
Discussion
Unfortunately this is a very uninteresting basic consumer rights with a faulty appliance... But I'm banging my head against a brick wall.
I bought a new fridge freezer 5 weeks ago. It's failed, as appliances are want to. The freezer has thawed, the fridge feels like it's at ambient temperature and the display is flashing an error code. For this error the manual says "Call service for assistance as soon as possible".
I've contacted the supplier (small online outfit) who says "it's beyond 30 days, take it up with the manufacturer warranty". I've contacted the manufacturer who have said "we'll send out a technician, and they'll work out if they need to repair or replace it". Technician is over a week away, then I've got to add on time to repair or replace. The manufacturer is refusing to budge on this and have referred me to their complaints department.
Clearly, whilst this is a minor inconvenience with some appliances, being without the ability to refrigerate food for a couple of weeks is a major problem, especially during summer when you can't just put things in a nice cold shed. I don't have time to go shopping twice a day, and I don't want to be living off takeaways. There's no-one nearby I could impose on to use their fridge, and being a non-boozer I don't have a beer or wine fridge I could press into service.
To me, it seems that the quickest way to resolve this is to raise an "item not fit for purpose" with my CC company and order a new one in parallel. I could have one here tomorrow. But, that might throw difficulties with the fact that the manufacturer isn't refusing to repair/replace, they're just refusing to do it in a timescale that I think is acceptable (technician here tomorrow to work out it's buggered, new fridge the next day). Plus the matter of who is responsible for disposing of the old one.
Any ideas?
(NB all my sausages have thawed... so that rules out at least one course of action).
I bought a new fridge freezer 5 weeks ago. It's failed, as appliances are want to. The freezer has thawed, the fridge feels like it's at ambient temperature and the display is flashing an error code. For this error the manual says "Call service for assistance as soon as possible".
I've contacted the supplier (small online outfit) who says "it's beyond 30 days, take it up with the manufacturer warranty". I've contacted the manufacturer who have said "we'll send out a technician, and they'll work out if they need to repair or replace it". Technician is over a week away, then I've got to add on time to repair or replace. The manufacturer is refusing to budge on this and have referred me to their complaints department.
Clearly, whilst this is a minor inconvenience with some appliances, being without the ability to refrigerate food for a couple of weeks is a major problem, especially during summer when you can't just put things in a nice cold shed. I don't have time to go shopping twice a day, and I don't want to be living off takeaways. There's no-one nearby I could impose on to use their fridge, and being a non-boozer I don't have a beer or wine fridge I could press into service.
To me, it seems that the quickest way to resolve this is to raise an "item not fit for purpose" with my CC company and order a new one in parallel. I could have one here tomorrow. But, that might throw difficulties with the fact that the manufacturer isn't refusing to repair/replace, they're just refusing to do it in a timescale that I think is acceptable (technician here tomorrow to work out it's buggered, new fridge the next day). Plus the matter of who is responsible for disposing of the old one.
Any ideas?
(NB all my sausages have thawed... so that rules out at least one course of action).
What did the manufacturer say when you explained the situation and asked what you were supposed to do in the intervening days?
It seems to me that since your contract is with the store you bought it from, not the manufacturer, that whatever terms exist are between you and them.
I could see how you might have the makings of a consequential loss claim against the retailer, but not the manufacturer. This claim would be pretty nominal, though, so would be entirely a waste of time to actually try and go through the courts to enforce it.
IANAL though, so shrug.
It seems to me that since your contract is with the store you bought it from, not the manufacturer, that whatever terms exist are between you and them.
I could see how you might have the makings of a consequential loss claim against the retailer, but not the manufacturer. This claim would be pretty nominal, though, so would be entirely a waste of time to actually try and go through the courts to enforce it.
IANAL though, so shrug.
You have a contract with the supplier, not the manufacturer.
From personal experience I always go back to the store. Going back to the manufacturer often leaves you out of pocket, and at the mercy of whatever the manufacturer deems fit.
As an example I bought a screen from Currys. It died a week later. They referred me to the manufacturer. The manufacturer got me to send it back at my expense, then sent me a second hand screen as a replacement. I rejected that as it was missing stuff and would not sit straight on its stand. The replacement was dead on arrival,and also second hand. I went back to Currys and refused to leave until they replaced it
I now only deal with the supplier. If they want to take it up with the manufacturer that's fine, but that's who they have a contract with.
From personal experience I always go back to the store. Going back to the manufacturer often leaves you out of pocket, and at the mercy of whatever the manufacturer deems fit.
As an example I bought a screen from Currys. It died a week later. They referred me to the manufacturer. The manufacturer got me to send it back at my expense, then sent me a second hand screen as a replacement. I rejected that as it was missing stuff and would not sit straight on its stand. The replacement was dead on arrival,and also second hand. I went back to Currys and refused to leave until they replaced it
I now only deal with the supplier. If they want to take it up with the manufacturer that's fine, but that's who they have a contract with.
Two votes for "take it up again with the supplier". I'll do that, but when they try to send me to the supplier again I'll stick to my guns with the threat of getting CC company involved if they don't get a shift on.
Thanks both, it's one of those matters that's so simple that I'm looking at it thinking "what am I missing here?!". S&SOGA used to make it so black and white for these matters.
Still... not looking forward to my morning cereal once the milk goes lumpy.
Thanks both, it's one of those matters that's so simple that I'm looking at it thinking "what am I missing here?!". S&SOGA used to make it so black and white for these matters.
Still... not looking forward to my morning cereal once the milk goes lumpy.
donkmeister said:
Two votes for "take it up again with the supplier". I'll do that, but when they try to send me to the supplier again I'll stick to my guns with the threat of getting CC company involved if they don't get a shift on.
Thanks both, it's one of those matters that's so simple that I'm looking at it thinking "what am I missing here?!". S&SOGA used to make it so black and white for these matters.
Still... not looking forward to my morning cereal once the milk goes lumpy.
One word of warning. As others have said the supplier is solely responsible for sorting out the faulty goods. However unlike large businesses who may repair themselves or swap within their own stock, smaller companies may just become an intermediary between you and the manufacturer. You could end up slowing the process down. Thanks both, it's one of those matters that's so simple that I'm looking at it thinking "what am I missing here?!". S&SOGA used to make it so black and white for these matters.
Still... not looking forward to my morning cereal once the milk goes lumpy.
They can fulfill there responsibilities simply by referring the issue to the manufacturer and keep you updated. Whether the timscales are acceptable is another issue.
OP the relevant legislation is the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
After 30 days they have right to attempt a repair... As to who organises that, well... Here's a link which may help.
http://tradingstandardsblog.co.uk/who-is-liable-fo...
After 30 days they have right to attempt a repair... As to who organises that, well... Here's a link which may help.
http://tradingstandardsblog.co.uk/who-is-liable-fo...
Whilst the “take it back to the retailer” line might be the process that is laid out in CRA all that will do is delay getting it sorted as you send it back to the retailer and they send it to the manufacturer who then returns it to the retailer and then back to you. I had the same issue with a Samsung phone and a mouse for my lads PC. Both were bought from online retailers who washed their hands of the issue. Dealt directly with the manufacturer and it was painless. I won’t use either of the retailers again.
moonigan said:
Whilst the “take it back to the retailer” line might be the process that is laid out in CRA all that will do is delay getting it sorted as you send it back to the retailer and they send it to the manufacturer who then returns it to the retailer and then back to you. I had the same issue with a Samsung phone and a mouse for my lads PC. Both were bought from online retailers who washed their hands of the issue. Dealt directly with the manufacturer and it was painless. I won’t use either of the retailers again.
It's great when it works, but when it goes wrong you have zero comeback with the manufacturer. They can fob you off and just say it's their policy. The supplier can't do that.
98elise said:
It's great when it works, but when it goes wrong you have zero comeback with the manufacturer. They can fob you off and just say it's their policy. The supplier can't do that.
The supplier within reason can appoint whomever they wish as an agent to handle warranty issues though. The manufacturer with both vested interest in avoiding a return and supposedly the best product knowledge makes a lot of sense.Although should the manufacturer fail to fix the issue satisfactorily then the onus is on the supplier to resolve.
In real life, seen it work out every which way. Ultimately my best advice is to use a good supplier, even if they refer you to manufacturer in the first instance.
We got a built in fridge freezer from a well known online retailer.
After spending hours fitting it I removed the packing round the shelves and found one of them had been rammed in off the runners and had pierced the back of the fridge.
Trying to get it replaced was a nightmare. It took days of emails and phone calls before I eventually got a refund. In spite of me sending pictures of the damage they were insisting it had to go through warranty and an engineer had to be called out to assess the repair.
I just kept on at them till they acknowledged it was damaged on delivery.
A slightly more open and shut case that OP’s but keep on at them. Hopefully you’ll encounter a rep with a bit of sense.
After spending hours fitting it I removed the packing round the shelves and found one of them had been rammed in off the runners and had pierced the back of the fridge.
Trying to get it replaced was a nightmare. It took days of emails and phone calls before I eventually got a refund. In spite of me sending pictures of the damage they were insisting it had to go through warranty and an engineer had to be called out to assess the repair.
I just kept on at them till they acknowledged it was damaged on delivery.
A slightly more open and shut case that OP’s but keep on at them. Hopefully you’ll encounter a rep with a bit of sense.
Update... Technician visited, but wrong parts brought due to manufacturer providing incorrect details to repair subby. Therefore no repair. Important to note that I provided the correct details as the online booking system needs model and serial numbers.
They've scheduled repair for 2 weeks time.
Under CRA 2015 I see this as them having had the chance to repair; the reason for the repair not working is within supplier's control, not mine. Given that this is total failure (not quibbling about some secondary feature) and causing significant inconvenience, I reckon I now have the right to reject, and ask them to come and get it asap. Over 3 weeks without a fridge is bad, especially in summer.
Does that sound like a reasonable interpretation?
Given it's properly massive, I'll need it gone before the new one arrives. If they play silly buggers I'll have to put it outside. Provided I'm reasonable (i.e. keeping it back from the road to make it less visible, not inviting scrappies to take it etc) and give them 24 hours notice that I'll be doing that, would they have any recourse against me if it gets rained on or pinched? It's big and heavy so they'd have to be motivated and have a van, but I don't want to find myself liable if that were to happen.
They've scheduled repair for 2 weeks time.
Under CRA 2015 I see this as them having had the chance to repair; the reason for the repair not working is within supplier's control, not mine. Given that this is total failure (not quibbling about some secondary feature) and causing significant inconvenience, I reckon I now have the right to reject, and ask them to come and get it asap. Over 3 weeks without a fridge is bad, especially in summer.
Does that sound like a reasonable interpretation?
Given it's properly massive, I'll need it gone before the new one arrives. If they play silly buggers I'll have to put it outside. Provided I'm reasonable (i.e. keeping it back from the road to make it less visible, not inviting scrappies to take it etc) and give them 24 hours notice that I'll be doing that, would they have any recourse against me if it gets rained on or pinched? It's big and heavy so they'd have to be motivated and have a van, but I don't want to find myself liable if that were to happen.
donkmeister said:
Update... Technician visited, but wrong parts brought due to manufacturer providing incorrect details to repair subby. Therefore no repair. Important to note that I provided the correct details as the online booking system needs model and serial numbers.
They've scheduled repair for 2 weeks time.
Under CRA 2015 I see this as them having had the chance to repair; the reason for the repair not working is within supplier's control, not mine. Given that this is total failure (not quibbling about some secondary feature) and causing significant inconvenience, I reckon I now have the right to reject, and ask them to come and get it asap. Over 3 weeks without a fridge is bad, especially in summer.
Does that sound like a reasonable interpretation?
Does the law say you should give them a single chance to repair it, or is it not specific?They've scheduled repair for 2 weeks time.
Under CRA 2015 I see this as them having had the chance to repair; the reason for the repair not working is within supplier's control, not mine. Given that this is total failure (not quibbling about some secondary feature) and causing significant inconvenience, I reckon I now have the right to reject, and ask them to come and get it asap. Over 3 weeks without a fridge is bad, especially in summer.
Does that sound like a reasonable interpretation?
If they'd fitted parts and it failed again, then I'd agree with you...but I'm sure their argument would be that they haven't had a chance to attempt repair it as the parts were misordered.
donkmeister said:
Given it's properly massive, I'll need it gone before the new one arrives. If they play silly buggers I'll have to put it outside. Provided I'm reasonable (i.e. keeping it back from the road to make it less visible, not inviting scrappies to take it etc) and give them 24 hours notice that I'll be doing that, would they have any recourse against me if it gets rained on or pinched? It's big and heavy so they'd have to be motivated and have a van, but I don't want to find myself liable if that were to happen.
You have to keep it secure until they can pick it up...that will include keeping it dry, undamaged, and not peed on by the local wildlife.donkmeister said:
Update... Technician visited, but wrong parts brought due to manufacturer providing incorrect details to repair subby. Therefore no repair. Important to note that I provided the correct details as the online booking system needs model and serial numbers.
They've scheduled repair for 2 weeks time.
Under CRA 2015 I see this as them having had the chance to repair; the reason for the repair not working is within supplier's control, not mine. Given that this is total failure (not quibbling about some secondary feature) and causing significant inconvenience, I reckon I now have the right to reject, and ask them to come and get it asap. Over 3 weeks without a fridge is bad, especially in summer.
Does that sound like a reasonable interpretation?
Given it's properly massive, I'll need it gone before the new one arrives. If they play silly buggers I'll have to put it outside. Provided I'm reasonable (i.e. keeping it back from the road to make it less visible, not inviting scrappies to take it etc) and give them 24 hours notice that I'll be doing that, would they have any recourse against me if it gets rained on or pinched? It's big and heavy so they'd have to be motivated and have a van, but I don't want to find myself liable if that were to happen.
Not sure to be honest. I suspect you might fall foul of the following:They've scheduled repair for 2 weeks time.
Under CRA 2015 I see this as them having had the chance to repair; the reason for the repair not working is within supplier's control, not mine. Given that this is total failure (not quibbling about some secondary feature) and causing significant inconvenience, I reckon I now have the right to reject, and ask them to come and get it asap. Over 3 weeks without a fridge is bad, especially in summer.
Does that sound like a reasonable interpretation?
Given it's properly massive, I'll need it gone before the new one arrives. If they play silly buggers I'll have to put it outside. Provided I'm reasonable (i.e. keeping it back from the road to make it less visible, not inviting scrappies to take it etc) and give them 24 hours notice that I'll be doing that, would they have any recourse against me if it gets rained on or pinched? It's big and heavy so they'd have to be motivated and have a van, but I don't want to find myself liable if that were to happen.
If the repair takes place in the consumer’s home the repair is not
complete until you (or the repair person) tell the consumer or otherwise indicate that the
repair is done. This means that where the repair can’t be completed in a single visit, unless
the repair person says or otherwise indicates that the goods are fit for use, the subsequent
visits will count as part of the same repair attempt.
https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/f...
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