Kitchen Contractor Woes
Discussion
Hi All,
Just needed some advice where I stand with a company I hired to do my kitchen as they have been an absolute nightmare. They told me the project will take 10 days to do, its been over a month and it still isn't finished. Apologies if its horrible to the eyes to read but its quite a list.
I have paid them £11,500 and owe them £2,000 upon completion.
To list the issues I've had:
Didn't turn up on specified date to start the job
Didn't turn up on the new date to start the job
Turned up late on the day they actually started
Multiple days when they said they will turn up, they didn't with no notice and constant reassurances they are coming (more than 10 occurrences of this)
Missing kitchen bits (largely inserts etc) & splashback
Sent me a photo of the worktop I picked, told me its being cut and then after 2 weeks told me sorry its 20mm not 30mm pick a new one leaving me with a £4k worktop that I didn't really want (original one would take 3 months now to arrive bla bla Brexit etc.)
Drainer grooves missing on worktop despite asking for them
Last 2 days they said they are coming at 11am, turned up at 5.30pm for 2 hrs and then 15 mins.
Told me to have an electrical point on the left wall and right for under cabinet LEDs, I did that and he's given me LEDS which require multiple power runs (4 x transformers to be powered). Is now saying its my issue and I didn't put enough electrical points.
Given under counter LEDs that require a plug socket which cant work now (again he didn't specify he needs a specific plug point for these) as everything is sealed up.
I told him to give me the LEDs before the worktop went in so I could get any wiring done before hand and drop it behind the cabinets, he didn't and now I have a stone worktop in place which cant be moved. Says its my headache now. Electrician says he needs to drop a part of the ceiling to do it and will cost £450.
Moved the dishwasher 2 days ago (was fitted perfectly buy his own guy initially) and it wouldn't go back in right, blamed the plumbing work and said deal with it, it isn't my headache and left. I checked and the dishwasher waste pipe was in the way and was partially crushed by him pushing it. Sent him a photo and his response was ok fix it.
In short an absolute nightmare. Adding in the building work I had done to the kitchen I've been living off of takeaways for 3 months so that's been an additional cost I've had to endure. I'm at the end of my tether and this guy is a condescending and aggressive prick and I simply want him out and I'm on the fence of getting someone else in to finish off the small bits.
Legally are there any ramifications if I refuse him entry to my house and minus all new costs from the £2,000 I owe him? I know that can't be answered without seeing the agreement I signed but I cannot take it anymore.
Again apologies for the rant/wall of text.
Thanks
Just needed some advice where I stand with a company I hired to do my kitchen as they have been an absolute nightmare. They told me the project will take 10 days to do, its been over a month and it still isn't finished. Apologies if its horrible to the eyes to read but its quite a list.
I have paid them £11,500 and owe them £2,000 upon completion.
To list the issues I've had:
Didn't turn up on specified date to start the job
Didn't turn up on the new date to start the job
Turned up late on the day they actually started
Multiple days when they said they will turn up, they didn't with no notice and constant reassurances they are coming (more than 10 occurrences of this)
Missing kitchen bits (largely inserts etc) & splashback
Sent me a photo of the worktop I picked, told me its being cut and then after 2 weeks told me sorry its 20mm not 30mm pick a new one leaving me with a £4k worktop that I didn't really want (original one would take 3 months now to arrive bla bla Brexit etc.)
Drainer grooves missing on worktop despite asking for them
Last 2 days they said they are coming at 11am, turned up at 5.30pm for 2 hrs and then 15 mins.
Told me to have an electrical point on the left wall and right for under cabinet LEDs, I did that and he's given me LEDS which require multiple power runs (4 x transformers to be powered). Is now saying its my issue and I didn't put enough electrical points.
Given under counter LEDs that require a plug socket which cant work now (again he didn't specify he needs a specific plug point for these) as everything is sealed up.
I told him to give me the LEDs before the worktop went in so I could get any wiring done before hand and drop it behind the cabinets, he didn't and now I have a stone worktop in place which cant be moved. Says its my headache now. Electrician says he needs to drop a part of the ceiling to do it and will cost £450.
Moved the dishwasher 2 days ago (was fitted perfectly buy his own guy initially) and it wouldn't go back in right, blamed the plumbing work and said deal with it, it isn't my headache and left. I checked and the dishwasher waste pipe was in the way and was partially crushed by him pushing it. Sent him a photo and his response was ok fix it.
In short an absolute nightmare. Adding in the building work I had done to the kitchen I've been living off of takeaways for 3 months so that's been an additional cost I've had to endure. I'm at the end of my tether and this guy is a condescending and aggressive prick and I simply want him out and I'm on the fence of getting someone else in to finish off the small bits.
Legally are there any ramifications if I refuse him entry to my house and minus all new costs from the £2,000 I owe him? I know that can't be answered without seeing the agreement I signed but I cannot take it anymore.
Again apologies for the rant/wall of text.
Thanks
You have few palatable options here,
Pragmatically, you need to stop him from doing any more and then find some contractors to finish the work - simple. You may have to deal with some unpleasantness from the guy.
Contractually, you should tell him in writing that his work has fallen far short of the standard that can be reasonably be expected and as such you are cancelling the contract. Ask for your money back. Then follow up with a legal claim. You should probably give him the chance to rectify the problems, but tell him you wont do that as the standard of his work is so far short that you will not allow him to screw it up further (or some such), cite the damage he has done.
However in practical terms, tell him to f
k off and get the work finished by others. You won't get any recompense from him, the job will cost more, but it'll get done and time will make the anger go away.
This is super common, Miss Bert has just been through it. One alternative tactic is to just find other contractors. Tell him you are doing that, but don't tell him he's fired. He'll stop coming and then you can start legal action (or not as you feel - you won't get anything from him even if you do!).
HTH
Bert
Pragmatically, you need to stop him from doing any more and then find some contractors to finish the work - simple. You may have to deal with some unpleasantness from the guy.
Contractually, you should tell him in writing that his work has fallen far short of the standard that can be reasonably be expected and as such you are cancelling the contract. Ask for your money back. Then follow up with a legal claim. You should probably give him the chance to rectify the problems, but tell him you wont do that as the standard of his work is so far short that you will not allow him to screw it up further (or some such), cite the damage he has done.
However in practical terms, tell him to f
k off and get the work finished by others. You won't get any recompense from him, the job will cost more, but it'll get done and time will make the anger go away.This is super common, Miss Bert has just been through it. One alternative tactic is to just find other contractors. Tell him you are doing that, but don't tell him he's fired. He'll stop coming and then you can start legal action (or not as you feel - you won't get anything from him even if you do!).
HTH
Bert
He has also supplied everything, kitchen units worktop etc.
The £2,000 was upon completion of everything but it's just dragging out.
I'm happy to leave him with the £11,500.
Prime example of his way of operating is, he guaranteed he would finish it all by Wednesday. He rocked up at 6pm, took one panel off and left.
The £2,000 was upon completion of everything but it's just dragging out.
I'm happy to leave him with the £11,500.
Prime example of his way of operating is, he guaranteed he would finish it all by Wednesday. He rocked up at 6pm, took one panel off and left.
Link here which may be helpful. You may have seen it.
You mention that you'll accept him keeping the £11.5 already paid. You mention that £2k is owed on completion, but it sounds like we're a long way from completion. Do you have a feel for whether he will accept that and walk away, or does he feel he's owed more money? If the former then things may be fairly simple for you, if the latter then you may wish to bring up the possibility of claiming remedial costs from him
https://www.mylawyer.co.uk/disputes-over-building-...
You mention that you'll accept him keeping the £11.5 already paid. You mention that £2k is owed on completion, but it sounds like we're a long way from completion. Do you have a feel for whether he will accept that and walk away, or does he feel he's owed more money? If the former then things may be fairly simple for you, if the latter then you may wish to bring up the possibility of claiming remedial costs from him
https://www.mylawyer.co.uk/disputes-over-building-...
Edited by Canon_Fodder on Friday 27th August 12:16
hmmmm..
It rather depends what's in the actual agreement... Does that mention termination?
That aside, options seems to be:
1) Terminate the contract for his failure to turn up on time and to complete the work in a reasonable time and for all the poor workmanship and omissions. Withhold the £2k.
2) Write to him demanding he fixes all the issues (list them) in x weeks at his expense and also that he sticks to a schedule of regular working days & hours, and if he fails to do this you will terminate the contract, get another contractor to finish the job and claim that cost from him. (You may choose not to do the last part but it's the only real stick you've got to beat him with along with the £2k completion sum)
It rather depends what's in the actual agreement... Does that mention termination?
That aside, options seems to be:
1) Terminate the contract for his failure to turn up on time and to complete the work in a reasonable time and for all the poor workmanship and omissions. Withhold the £2k.
2) Write to him demanding he fixes all the issues (list them) in x weeks at his expense and also that he sticks to a schedule of regular working days & hours, and if he fails to do this you will terminate the contract, get another contractor to finish the job and claim that cost from him. (You may choose not to do the last part but it's the only real stick you've got to beat him with along with the £2k completion sum)
If you get into an argument with him and he walks, you'll have to find somebody else to finish off - but you have got £2000 to play with.
If there's more than £2k worth of work to complete then this might not be such a good idea.
You may find that there isn't enough money left on the job hence the slowdown while he gets his next payment from another customer.
If you kick him off, he'll ask for part of the £2000 owed and he'll try and claim that you have messed him around or he'll make up excuses about supply problems etc. which could lead to a counterclaim - it all depends on the contract and whether you've been awkward in his eyes.
He may already be looking for an excuse for a get-out.
In my opinion, the best option here is to keep firmly hold of the £2000, stay calm and let him finish it in his time. It will avoid conflict and at least it puts the ball in his court without causing ructions.
Write him a letter by all means, giving him a deadline and listing the work which is required for him to finish and get his payment but don't expect him to take kindly to it.
It sounds as though he's got too much work on the go and has underestimated the timescale. His late start shows that he probably did exactly the same thing on his last job - in fact, he's probably still revisiting that one when he's not at yours - and starting the next one!
If there's more than £2k worth of work to complete then this might not be such a good idea.
You may find that there isn't enough money left on the job hence the slowdown while he gets his next payment from another customer.
If you kick him off, he'll ask for part of the £2000 owed and he'll try and claim that you have messed him around or he'll make up excuses about supply problems etc. which could lead to a counterclaim - it all depends on the contract and whether you've been awkward in his eyes.
He may already be looking for an excuse for a get-out.
In my opinion, the best option here is to keep firmly hold of the £2000, stay calm and let him finish it in his time. It will avoid conflict and at least it puts the ball in his court without causing ructions.
Write him a letter by all means, giving him a deadline and listing the work which is required for him to finish and get his payment but don't expect him to take kindly to it.
It sounds as though he's got too much work on the go and has underestimated the timescale. His late start shows that he probably did exactly the same thing on his last job - in fact, he's probably still revisiting that one when he's not at yours - and starting the next one!
I'd document everything and strike first, in writing. If you don't and get into a verbal he will walk and claim the £2k from you and could well win because it's all about the evidence prior to a bust up. It's typical to make all sorts of claims AFTER a bust up (for good measure and is often disregarded). Sadly, your willingness to bend throughout his tardiness and sloppiness has labelled you a soft touch. Good luck
Burwood said:
I'd document everything and strike first, in writing. If you don't and get into a verbal he will walk and claim the £2k from you and could well win because it's all about the evidence prior to a bust up. It's typical to make all sorts of claims AFTER a bust up (for good measure and is often disregarded). Sadly, your willingness to bend throughout his tardiness and sloppiness has labelled you a soft touch. Good luck
There are two outcomes to this: He'll either knuckle down like a good boy and finish the job cap in hand or it'll wind him up and you're in for a fight which could be costly. For example, he won't take kindly to being told that it's his fault for not delaying the worktops so that you can drop wires down - I would imagine there's nothing in the contract that allows for customer intervention such as this.At least allowing him to finish the job in his own time, if he does walk, you're guaranteed to win.
Looking at the list of errors, it looks as if there is a communication problem more than anything. It would be easy to manipulate both ways.
We have had similar issues with a paving contractor on a garden project recently. They have finished the job but it’s fairly crap. We paid 50% deposit and that’s all they are getting unless they come and sort it out properly. They can whistle for the rest.
They are I ignoring reasonable emails sent by the wife so as far as I’m concerned that’s it. If they are that desperate for their cash they can take us to the stalls claims court.
They are I ignoring reasonable emails sent by the wife so as far as I’m concerned that’s it. If they are that desperate for their cash they can take us to the stalls claims court.
fouronthefloor said:
Burwood said:
I'd document everything and strike first, in writing. If you don't and get into a verbal he will walk and claim the £2k from you and could well win because it's all about the evidence prior to a bust up. It's typical to make all sorts of claims AFTER a bust up (for good measure and is often disregarded). Sadly, your willingness to bend throughout his tardiness and sloppiness has labelled you a soft touch. Good luck
There are two outcomes to this: He'll either knuckle down like a good boy and finish the job cap in hand or it'll wind him up and you're in for a fight which could be costly. For example, he won't take kindly to being told that it's his fault for not delaying the worktops so that you can drop wires down - I would imagine there's nothing in the contract that allows for customer intervention such as this.At least allowing him to finish the job in his own time, if he does walk, you're guaranteed to win.
Looking at the list of errors, it looks as if there is a communication problem more than anything. It would be easy to manipulate both ways.
Given the OP has come this far perhaps make an explicit list of every single issue! Give him a reasonable period to resolve and stimulate what the outcome will be if not done. A boot up the ass
Burwood said:
Nothing in the contract you say? I read poor workmanship and even damage coupled with not working to the agreed timetable. Contracts don't have to state every niggle and machination. It's a general breach. It boils down to what is reasonable.
Given the OP has come this far perhaps make an explicit list of every single issue! Give him a reasonable period to resolve and stimulate what the outcome will be if not done. A boot up the ass
I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it's easy to manipulate the situation from what the OP has said.Given the OP has come this far perhaps make an explicit list of every single issue! Give him a reasonable period to resolve and stimulate what the outcome will be if not done. A boot up the ass
It would be easy to give excuses for not starting on time, particularly if the contract doesn't have a time of essence clause - we're in the middle of a pandemic, supply problems etc.
It looks as though the OP has got involved with the electrics. Some tradespeople don't like it when a customer gets involved to save money, particularly if it hinders progress in any way. Why was the worktop fitted before the OP had a chance to run the cables down? Because the OP wasn't there!
It looks as though the contractor has thought 'Sod it - I'm not contracted to do the electrics. Why should I wait or be expected to accomodate.
The OP doesn't say who pulled the appliance out after it had been plumbed-in but I wouldn't mind betting that the OP pulled it out to install the electrics and then couldn't get it back in.
It's not a good attitude to have but there are always three sides to the story.
Edited by fouronthefloor on Saturday 28th August 14:15
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