Without prejudice
Author
Discussion

Dixy

Original Poster:

3,642 posts

234 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Some seem to put this on every piece of correspondence, does it have any legal standing.

Ian Geary

5,597 posts

221 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
First Google result

https://gowlingwlg.com/en/insights-resources/artic...

BV tried to school people on this some years ago. It's the context that matters as to what is confidential or not...not whether WP has been sprayed all over it.

Dixy

Original Poster:

3,642 posts

234 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Thanks, his wise advice is missed. I had tried to remember what he had said.

zzrman

670 posts

218 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Dixy said:
Some seem to put this on every piece of correspondence, does it have any legal standing.
Answer is yea. Where there is a dispute between two or more parties, one party can admit certain matters relevant to the issue in an attempt to settle the matter without resort to a court hearing. Where the admission is headed without prejudice it has the affect that should the matter proceed to court because thee parties are unable the settle the matter beforehand, that any admissions made cannot be used in evidence by the party to whom the admission is made against the party who made the admission.

You are however right in thinking that the term is often misused in legal communications i.e. where the parties are not making any attempt to settle the matter. I suspect most solicitors in any matter which is potentially adversarial will head their letters "Without Prejudice" without thinking about whether it is needed or not.

surveyor

18,689 posts

213 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Some surveyors have it written into their sig, which I don't like

Having said that other than calderbanks, more often that not serious consideration in our field seems to be only as to when to send 'open' correspondence,

donkmeister

12,843 posts

129 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Mrs D used to deal with a client who would begin every meeting with it... That's not hyperbole either, literally every meeting he would make a statement about how everything said in the course of the meeting by his party was non-binding and without prejudice.

surveyor

18,689 posts

213 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
donkmeister said:
Mrs D used to deal with a client who would begin every meeting with it... That's not hyperbole either, literally every meeting he would make a statement about how everything said in the course of the meeting by his party was non-binding and without prejudice.
Might as well turn round and walk out!

Terminator X

20,543 posts

233 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Dixy said:
Some seem to put this on every piece of correspondence, does it have any legal standing.
Afaik only if used by lawyers.

TX.

surveyor

18,689 posts

213 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Dixy said:
Some seem to put this on every piece of correspondence, does it have any legal standing.
Afaik only if used by lawyers.

TX.
Err nope. We use it too!

BertBert

21,248 posts

240 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
I had a WP discussion this morning. No lawyers involved, just two level headed business people genuinely trying to sort out a dispute.

AJL308

6,390 posts

185 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
donkmeister said:
Mrs D used to deal with a client who would begin every meeting with it... That's not hyperbole either, literally every meeting he would make a statement about how everything said in the course of the meeting by his party was non-binding and without prejudice.
That's like how you see on US Cop movies where the prossie says are you a law enforcement officer as if they say "no" then it gives the prossie a free pass.

hyphen

26,262 posts

119 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Dixy said:
... does it have any legal standing.
Depends on what you write. If it is a genuine attempt at resolution, then would be unlikely to be allowed to be introduced in court.

But if your letter/email is actually just stupid, then the other side may well try to use it against you.

You can also put Without Prejudice Save As To Costs i.e. can't be used in court but you can introduce when costs are discussed to show you were reasonable and they were not.

hyphen

26,262 posts

119 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
surveyor said:
Some surveyors have it written into their sig, which I don't like
laugh

BertBert

21,248 posts

240 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
hyphen said:
surveyor said:
Some surveyors have it written into their sig, which I don't like
laugh
But they are probably right as all interactions with surveyors end in disputes!

Terminator X

20,543 posts

233 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
surveyor said:
Terminator X said:
Dixy said:
Some seem to put this on every piece of correspondence, does it have any legal standing.
Afaik only if used by lawyers.

TX.
Err nope. We use it too!
Maybe but if you aren't a lawyer it counts for nothing. Perhaps a lawyer can confirm!

TX.

surveyor

18,689 posts

213 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
BertBert said:
hyphen said:
surveyor said:
Some surveyors have it written into their sig, which I don't like
laugh
But they are probably right as all interactions with surveyors end in disputes!
They should not. But the seem to in my field!

Although todays dispute was minor, albeit persistent

surveyor

18,689 posts

213 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
surveyor said:
Terminator X said:
Dixy said:
Some seem to put this on every piece of correspondence, does it have any legal standing.
Afaik only if used by lawyers.

TX.
Err nope. We use it too!
Maybe but if you aren't a lawyer it counts for nothing. Perhaps a lawyer can confirm!

TX.
We don’t need a lawyer to confirm you are wrong!

Terminator X

20,543 posts

233 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
surveyor said:
Terminator X said:
surveyor said:
Terminator X said:
Dixy said:
Some seem to put this on every piece of correspondence, does it have any legal standing.
Afaik only if used by lawyers.

TX.
Err nope. We use it too!
Maybe but if you aren't a lawyer it counts for nothing. Perhaps a lawyer can confirm!

TX.
We don’t need a lawyer to confirm you are wrong!
Have you had anything go to court and your "without prejudice" items didn't need to be shown?

TX.

surveyor

18,689 posts

213 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
surveyor said:
Terminator X said:
surveyor said:
Terminator X said:
Dixy said:
Some seem to put this on every piece of correspondence, does it have any legal standing.
Afaik only if used by lawyers.

TX.
Err nope. We use it too!
Maybe but if you aren't a lawyer it counts for nothing. Perhaps a lawyer can confirm!

TX.
We don’t need a lawyer to confirm you are wrong!
Have you had anything go to court and your "without prejudice" items didn't need to be shown?

TX.
In the landlord and tenant field it’s a daily event to write communications to try and settle disputes which if not ‘wp’ could prejudice our clients position. There are occasions when you might choose to write an open letter to put pressure on the other side that you will rely on it. Then there is a Calderbank, ie wp save as for costs which will often be relied upon when asking for determination on costs after (hopefully successful) arbitration.

Basically it is used extensively, and is in our field well understood.

Your average mortgage valuation Surveyor may perhaps be less likely to use it.

Terminator X

20,543 posts

233 months

Monday 11th October 2021
quotequote all
surveyor said:
In the landlord and tenant field it’s a daily event to write communications to try and settle disputes which if not ‘wp’ could prejudice our clients position. There are occasions when you might choose to write an open letter to put pressure on the other side that you will rely on it. Then there is a Calderbank, ie wp save as for costs which will often be relied upon when asking for determination on costs after (hopefully successful) arbitration.

Basically it is used extensively, and is in our field well understood.

Your average mortgage valuation Surveyor may perhaps be less likely to use it.
I appreciate that you might use the expression and why but what I am saying is that if you aren't a lawyer it can all get tabled in court afaik. Have you had any of it go to court? If so did the WP letters remain unseen?

TX.