Parcel Force claim - Do I have a leg to stand on?
Discussion
At the risk of leaving myself open to another bout of trolling (see my road furniture thread), I'd like to know if I have any recourse against Parcel Force.
Having sold my Fiat Coupe, I'm gradually selling my small stash of spares. One of the more valuable items to sell was an unused Plus camcover - it was immaculate and was destined for my own Coupe until I sold it.
I packed it extremely well, with copious amounts of bubble-wrap and air-pocket packing. I went to the post office and (as usual) they asked what was in the parcel - I told them it was a car part. I asked about compensation and was told I was covered up to £200 as standard.
The next bit is predictable - it arrived at the buyer with the box battered and holed and sadly, the camcover was broken.
I claimed from Parcel Force, only to be told they don't provide ANY compensation for vehicle parts. They blamed their "mechanical sorting machinery", which is either a complete cop out, or it's the in-house description for the sub-species twonk in the despatch department who loads the trucks by throwing / kicking the items on board. There's only one way a well-packed cast aluminium cam cover can be broken during transit and that's if it was subjected to a significant impact.
Regardless - I'm of the opinion that when I told them it was a car part, asked about compensation limits and then made payment, a contract was entered into. Parcel Force (via the Post Office) accepted that contract and have failed to fulfil it.
Informing disgruntled customers of compensation exclusions after the event is surely unenforceable?
deep breath...... Any thoughts?
PS - before anyone questions my motives, it's not really about the money - I'm just pi$$ed that a really rare car part is now scrapped and someone that was restoring their own Fiat Coupe will now have to do without.
Having sold my Fiat Coupe, I'm gradually selling my small stash of spares. One of the more valuable items to sell was an unused Plus camcover - it was immaculate and was destined for my own Coupe until I sold it.
I packed it extremely well, with copious amounts of bubble-wrap and air-pocket packing. I went to the post office and (as usual) they asked what was in the parcel - I told them it was a car part. I asked about compensation and was told I was covered up to £200 as standard.
The next bit is predictable - it arrived at the buyer with the box battered and holed and sadly, the camcover was broken.
I claimed from Parcel Force, only to be told they don't provide ANY compensation for vehicle parts. They blamed their "mechanical sorting machinery", which is either a complete cop out, or it's the in-house description for the sub-species twonk in the despatch department who loads the trucks by throwing / kicking the items on board. There's only one way a well-packed cast aluminium cam cover can be broken during transit and that's if it was subjected to a significant impact.
Regardless - I'm of the opinion that when I told them it was a car part, asked about compensation limits and then made payment, a contract was entered into. Parcel Force (via the Post Office) accepted that contract and have failed to fulfil it.
Informing disgruntled customers of compensation exclusions after the event is surely unenforceable?
deep breath...... Any thoughts?
PS - before anyone questions my motives, it's not really about the money - I'm just pi$$ed that a really rare car part is now scrapped and someone that was restoring their own Fiat Coupe will now have to do without.
Nigel_O said:
They blamed their "mechanical sorting machinery", which is either a complete cop out, or it's the in-house description for the sub-species twonk in the dispatch (corrected that for you) department who loads the trucks by throwing / kicking the items on board. There's only one way a well-packed cast aluminium cam cover can be broken during transit and that's if it was subjected to a significant impact.
... Any thoughts?
Yes, change your attitude. ... Any thoughts?
The company is responsible, and not the people it abuses for NMW.
Nigel_O said:
Regardless - I'm of the opinion that when I told them it was a car part, asked about compensation limits and then made payment, a contract was entered into. Parcel Force (via the Post Office) accepted that contract and have failed to fulfil it.
Informing disgruntled customers of compensation exclusions after the event is surely unenforceable?
https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/sending/items-we-exclude-compensationInforming disgruntled customers of compensation exclusions after the event is surely unenforceable?
The above link said:
Items excluded from compensation for damage
Any items that by their inherent nature are particularly susceptible to damage are excluded from compensation in the event of damage on all services. This includes but is not limited to the below:
You entered into a contract with them. Any items that by their inherent nature are particularly susceptible to damage are excluded from compensation in the event of damage on all services. This includes but is not limited to the below:
- Automotive vehicle parts and body work for example but not limited to doors, bumpers, headlights and other large body parts or panels...
They told you of the exclusions to compensation cover - it's on the website as above.
You chose to proceed.
Parcels are not handled with kid gloves - they have to be pretty robust if susceptible to damage and are going through mechanical sorters. If it's damaged, you either didn't pack it well enough or it's not suitable for parcel transport.
TL:DR - no, you don't have a leg to stand on.
If you can show that you weren't made aware of exclusions at the post office and you fully explained the part I really don't see how a general exclusion policy buried on a website which you don't have access to when making the contract is relevant.
It will be a long uphill battle though!
It will be a long uphill battle though!
Muzzer79 said:
You entered into a contract with them.
They told you of the exclusions to compensation cover - it's on the website as above.
Hmmm...I'm sure the OP will get nowhere, but the above would only be correct if he'd entered into the contract through the website.They told you of the exclusions to compensation cover - it's on the website as above.
It's not reasonable to refer afterwards to T's & C's that weren't mentioned at the time.
We ship a lot of valuable stuff , it comes to us and we send it back out after laser engraving it.
The way people pack stuff thinking it’s adequately packed is never good enough.
You should have packed it well, into a box , then used a plywood box to contain this.
It’s actually very hard to adequately back stuff unless it’s something you do all the time, you need foam inserts , polystyrene holders etc. Bubble wrap and cardboard just doesn’t survive shipping unless you get lucky
The way people pack stuff thinking it’s adequately packed is never good enough.
You should have packed it well, into a box , then used a plywood box to contain this.
It’s actually very hard to adequately back stuff unless it’s something you do all the time, you need foam inserts , polystyrene holders etc. Bubble wrap and cardboard just doesn’t survive shipping unless you get lucky
I feel your pain, OP, having been through the same loop in the 1990s with a motorcycle screen. It was (I thought) well-packed in a stout cardboard box, handed to the counter clerk who gave me a leaflet about insurance cover (£80 at the time, IIRC) and arrived broken a week later. I can only think it was jumped upon by someone >20 stones, as it was hefty polycarbonate.
Upon submitting the insurance claim, I received a refusal and a completely different leaflet back which, buried in a sub-paragraph, said that vehicle spare parts were excluded. No mention of this was made at the point of sale, and I got complete radio silence from them after that point.
Upon submitting the insurance claim, I received a refusal and a completely different leaflet back which, buried in a sub-paragraph, said that vehicle spare parts were excluded. No mention of this was made at the point of sale, and I got complete radio silence from them after that point.
Sheepshanks said:
Muzzer79 said:
You entered into a contract with them.
They told you of the exclusions to compensation cover - it's on the website as above.
Hmmm...I'm sure the OP will get nowhere, but the above would only be correct if he'd entered into the contract through the website.They told you of the exclusions to compensation cover - it's on the website as above.
It's not reasonable to refer afterwards to T's & C's that weren't mentioned at the time.
Muzzer79 said:
I would wager that the OP's receipt from Parcelforce to do the job refers to T's and C's on the website.....
You're right - however, this was handed to me AFTER I had explained what was in the parcel and AFTER I had requested information on compensation limits and AFTER I had paid them. I agree with a posted above - I'm not likely to get anywhere, but I'll make a bit of a fuss until I feel better....
944 Man said:
Nigel_O said:
They blamed their "mechanical sorting machinery", which is either a complete cop out, or it's the in-house description for the sub-species twonk in the dispatch (corrected that for you) department who loads the trucks by throwing / kicking the items on board. There's only one way a well-packed cast aluminium cam cover can be broken during transit and that's if it was subjected to a significant impact.
... Any thoughts?
Yes, change your attitude. ... Any thoughts?
The company is responsible, and not the people it abuses for NMW.
The company is responsible for my parcel and it's also responsible for ensuring employees perform their duties to a reasonable standard. Ducking behind small-print T&Cs to cover for their employee's lack of handling skills is not the answer.
Muzzer79 said:
Nigel_O said:
Regardless - I'm of the opinion that when I told them it was a car part, asked about compensation limits and then made payment, a contract was entered into. Parcel Force (via the Post Office) accepted that contract and have failed to fulfil it.
Informing disgruntled customers of compensation exclusions after the event is surely unenforceable?
https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/sending/items-we-exclude-compensationInforming disgruntled customers of compensation exclusions after the event is surely unenforceable?
The above link said:
Items excluded from compensation for damage
Any items that by their inherent nature are particularly susceptible to damage are excluded from compensation in the event of damage on all services. This includes but is not limited to the below:
You entered into a contract with them. Any items that by their inherent nature are particularly susceptible to damage are excluded from compensation in the event of damage on all services. This includes but is not limited to the below:
- Automotive vehicle parts and body work for example but not limited to doors, bumpers, headlights and other large body parts or panels...
They told you of the exclusions to compensation cover - it's on the website as above.
You chose to proceed.
Parcels are not handled with kid gloves - they have to be pretty robust if susceptible to damage and are going through mechanical sorters. If it's damaged, you either didn't pack it well enough or it's not suitable for parcel transport.
TL:DR - no, you don't have a leg to stand on.
I suspect your chances of a result are not high but if you have the time I’d be tempted to have a go.
A500leroy said:
You entered into a contract with the post office ( not parcel force they were just the carrier), put a claim in at the post office branch that served you.
Parcel force/ post office are two separate companies now.
That's a can of worms - I guess they'll say they were acting as an agent. What happens if there's another step and it was a sub-post office?Parcel force/ post office are two separate companies now.
Bear in mind it doesn't matter what the T's & C's say, there's a still an over-riding duty of care on Parcel Force to take care of stuff. It could be that a court would need to decide if they're acting unreasonably. It seems Parcel Force's standard MO is always to deny claims in the first instance.
Nigel_O said:
944 Man said:
Nigel_O said:
They blamed their "mechanical sorting machinery", which is either a complete cop out, or it's the in-house description for the sub-species twonk in the dispatch (corrected that for you) department who loads the trucks by throwing / kicking the items on board. There's only one way a well-packed cast aluminium cam cover can be broken during transit and that's if it was subjected to a significant impact.
... Any thoughts?
Yes, change your attitude. ... Any thoughts?
The company is responsible, and not the people it abuses for NMW.
The company is responsible for my parcel and it's also responsible for ensuring employees perform their duties to a reasonable standard. Ducking behind small-print T&Cs to cover for their employee's lack of handling skills is not the answer.
I sympathise with the situation Nigel, but you have made yourself into an unsympathetic character.
matjk said:
We ship a lot of valuable stuff , it comes to us and we send it back out after laser engraving it.
The way people pack stuff thinking it’s adequately packed is never good enough.
You should have packed it well, into a box , then used a plywood box to contain this.
It’s actually very hard to adequately back stuff unless it’s something you do all the time, you need foam inserts , polystyrene holders etc. Bubble wrap and cardboard just doesn’t survive shipping unless you get lucky
Agreed - when I was young I spent a few summers in the shipping department of a local IT company and learned a huge amount. When I buy stuff on ebay I often politely enquire about their plans to package it, and am pretty sure I've avoided a few disasters over the years... The best one is people thinking that writing "FRAGILE" or "THIS WAY UP" has any bearing on how it is treated The way people pack stuff thinking it’s adequately packed is never good enough.
You should have packed it well, into a box , then used a plywood box to contain this.
It’s actually very hard to adequately back stuff unless it’s something you do all the time, you need foam inserts , polystyrene holders etc. Bubble wrap and cardboard just doesn’t survive shipping unless you get lucky
edit: The post office staff not warning that car parts are excluded from compensation might be the best tack, but I don't think there's much chance of success...
bad company said:
You could send a letter before action & issue in the small claims court. It’s not expensive and easy to do online. Could go either way but doing something may make you feel better. They may struggle to rely on their terms of business if they were supplied after the event.
This would be the quickest way to sort it. PF may not even respond to the LBA given how disorganised they are.Did you just have the standared package insurance, or did you pay extra for an enhanced value insurance?
If the latter, you have a bit more of a chance in succeeding. If you declared the parcel contents and they decided to cover the contents at the enhanced value (extra fee) then its totally their responsibility to pay up. Its also an additional contract to the delivery one.
A friend was in the same boat with an expensive custom made knife which got lost. Despite enhanced insurance, they only wanted to pay out the value of the materials, not the value of the finished item. He took them to court and they lost. Basically the magsistrate said if you accepted the insurance you have to honour the contract at the agreed value. If you accepted the insurance and didnt intend to pay out (the agreed value), then its a case of obtaining money by deception. Do you wish to pay the claim, or argue the latter point in court? They chose to pay out.
If the latter, you have a bit more of a chance in succeeding. If you declared the parcel contents and they decided to cover the contents at the enhanced value (extra fee) then its totally their responsibility to pay up. Its also an additional contract to the delivery one.
A friend was in the same boat with an expensive custom made knife which got lost. Despite enhanced insurance, they only wanted to pay out the value of the materials, not the value of the finished item. He took them to court and they lost. Basically the magsistrate said if you accepted the insurance you have to honour the contract at the agreed value. If you accepted the insurance and didnt intend to pay out (the agreed value), then its a case of obtaining money by deception. Do you wish to pay the claim, or argue the latter point in court? They chose to pay out.
bad company said:
You could send a letter before action & issue in the small claims court. It’s not expensive and easy to do online. Could go either way but doing something may make you feel better. They may struggle to rely on their terms of business if they were supplied after the event.
I used to run a claims department for a courier. We dealt with claims like this a lot. We didn’t lose. OP - pays your money, takes your choice. Pursue it if you want to and/or if it will make you feel better. There’s never any guarantees in legal terms and I think you’ll lose, but you may get very lucky.
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