M25 - 30mph speed limit J5-6

[kingston12]

I got onto the M25 at J5 late last night in fairly biblical rain. The gantries were showing a 30mph limit due to standing water, which seemed fair enough given the conditions.

The problem I had was that there were quite a few HGV drivers on that section and they were not at all happy with me trying to drive anywhere near 30mph!

I think I got flashed by a roadside camera when I was doing about 45. Annoyingly, I didn't see any flashes at all for the HGVs!

Presumably, penalties are calculated the same as for urban roads, so I won't get away with an FPN for 45 in a 30 is the system is active?

[mmm-five]

kingston12 said:

I got onto the M25 at J5 late last night in fairly biblical rain. The gantries were showing a 30mph limit due to standing water, which seemed fair enough given the conditions.

The problem I had was that there were quite a few HGV drivers on that section and they were not at all happy with me trying to drive anywhere near 30mph!

I think I got flashed by a roadside camera when I was doing about 45. Annoyingly, I didn't see any flashes at all for the HGVs!

Presumably, penalties are calculated the same as for urban roads, so I won't get away with an FPN for 45 in a 30 is the system is active?

Was it an advisory limit, or a mandatory limit they were showing?

If it was the former, then maybe that was why the truckers were annoyed?

Alternatively, the flash might have just been a trucker flashing his 'night sun' spotlights.

[Canon_Fodder]

kingston12 said:

I got onto the M25 at J5 late last night in fairly biblical rain. The gantries were showing a 30mph limit due to standing water, which seemed fair enough given the conditions.

The problem I had was that there were quite a few HGV drivers on that section and they were not at all happy with me trying to drive anywhere near 30mph! ...

It's a difficult situation when the gantries suddenly show a (mandatory) big drop in max speed. As you say it can actually feel quite dangerous if a big wagon tries to bully you into speeding up but try not to be intimidated into breaking the law

[kingston12]

mmm-five said:

Was it an advisory limit, or a mandatory limit they were showing?

If it was the former, then maybe that was why the truckers were annoyed?

Alternatively, the flash might have just been a trucker flashing his 'night sun' spotlights.

Thanks for the reply.

I thought that it was mandatory (red ring around the speed limit on the gantry display), but I might have been mistaken.

The conditions were so bad that I wasn't comfortable going much more than 30 in my small low car anyway - there was a lot of standing water and so much spray that it was impossible to see it even with the wipers going as fast as possible.

I can appreciate that it's much less of an issue for truckers. I think what must have happened is that a lot of them set off at the same time from Clacket Lane services as I was passing - I was surrounded by at least ten at one point. I eventually managed to let them all through and it quietened down after that.

[kingston12]

Canon_Fodder said:

It's a difficult situation when the gantries suddenly show a (mandatory) big drop in max speed. As you say it can actually feel quite dangerous if a big wagon tries to bully you into speeding up but try not to be intimidated into breaking the law

Indeed. In this case I just got caught by too many of them at once.

At one point there was one doing about 20mph in front of me in lane 1 and a queue forming behind me. Once the queue had overtaken, I moved into lane 2 so as not to get too caught up in the spray from the slow moving one. That was a mistake as soon there were two more behind me travelling at more like 50mph and they decided to overtake/undertake me at the same time and then cut back in, obviously causing much more spray still.

I'm now hoping that this wasn't a mandatory limit - I thought it was at the time, but it didn't really make much difference to my own speed as I couldn't safely travel at that much higher than the limit imposed anyway.

[Pica-Pica]

You were of course right to be careful. Aquaplaning on a motorway is not a joyful experience. I drove with bravado once in the outside lane on the M6 (I guess the water was pooling there), comfortable that with the wipers on full, I could see OK. That is until the steering became extremely light and then non-existent. In truth, I could not see the river of water in the centre. Not seeing it should have been a warning in itself - lesson learnt!

[mmm-five]

Pica-Pica said:

You were of course right to be careful. Aquaplaning on a motorway is not a joyful experience. I drove with bravado once in the outside lane on the M6 (I guess the water was pooling there), comfortable that with the wipers on full, I could see OK. That is until the steering became extremely light and then non-existent. In truth, I could not see the river of water in the centre. Not seeing it should have been a warning in itself - lesson learnt!

I wasn't so lucky.

I was in a 4-lane pile of traffic, all sat at 50mph on the M42 (north to the M6) with a decent space between every vehicle so that there was time for the heavy spray to settle so that you could actually see the road (covered in water) between you and the car in front.

Happily managed that all the way from joining the M42 from the M40...until the tt in a silver Insignia decided he didn't think 50mph was fast enough, so came right up to the arse of the truck to the left of me and then 'jinked' into the gap between me and the car in front...just in time for him to see a huge puddle (lots of these on the outside lane in this section) and slam on...causing me to have to do the same.

I didn't see what happened to him and I aquaplaned as soon as I hit the brakes sharply and spun off across the 4 lanes (without hitting any other vehicle) and ended up facing the wrong way on the hard shoulder.

Definitely wasn't safe where I was, so drove 50m the wrong way to the little refuge.

[kingston12]

So frustrating to see damage like that caused by someone else's inability to drive to the conditions, rather than your own. I hope it all got fixed up ok.

I think I was lucky last night that the patches of standing water on the M25 weren't actually too deep. That wasn't the case when I turned off at J9, where there were some really deep patches. Fortunately I was able to drive through them at a speed I deemed to be safe rather than being bullied into going faster by truck drivers.

[Nimby]

If the spray was that bad the cameras might not have been able to read your numberplate.

[kingston12]

Nimby said:

If the spray was that bad the cameras might not have been able to read your numberplate.

That's true, I hadn't thought of that!

[chopper602]

Canon_Fodder said:

It's a difficult situation when the gantries suddenly show a (mandatory) big drop in max speed.

The speeds countdown on the main carriageway, so you won't come across a (30) all of a sudden. If there was a signal on the on-slip that should have put a restriction on to alert you to the impending one on the motorway.

[dogbucket]

There is a camera about 2 miles before J6 heading CW that would enforce any speed limits shown on the gantry. The other one is just before Clackets.

I did J14 to J8 at 10pm and there were no speed reductions, just warnings for Fog(!)

[martinbiz]

45 in a 30 is still a fixed penalty on any road