Water Leak Due to Incorrect Fitting
Discussion
We had some plumbing work around 13 months ago and it involved new toilets. Fast forward to today and we noticed a leak coming from the bottom of the toilet unit. When I lifted the top of the unit off, I could see that the flush valve hadn't stopped, so water kept flowing, hence the leak.
This is where it gets interesting, the leak has happened as the plumber hadn't put a lid on the cistern and it's also missing the bit circled on red, so the water couldn't go down the overflow, and this is why my flooring is ruined and the wood on the unit has blown so that needs replacing.
As it's been around 13 months since it was fitted, where do we stand legally? As this is obviously down to their cock up. To say that I am miffed is an understatement, as rummaging in hidden cisterns isn't one of my pastimes, so I wouldn't have known that this was the case, I checked the other loo and it's exactly the same.
This is where it gets interesting, the leak has happened as the plumber hadn't put a lid on the cistern and it's also missing the bit circled on red, so the water couldn't go down the overflow, and this is why my flooring is ruined and the wood on the unit has blown so that needs replacing.
As it's been around 13 months since it was fitted, where do we stand legally? As this is obviously down to their cock up. To say that I am miffed is an understatement, as rummaging in hidden cisterns isn't one of my pastimes, so I wouldn't have known that this was the case, I checked the other loo and it's exactly the same.
Hidden cisterns are the work of the devil! We had a similar problem where a very slow leak from the seal at the bottom of the cistern led to the floor getting wet but the leak was so slow that we didn't see any sign of it until the entire bathroom floor was knackered. When the leak was identified a simple rubber seal repair turned into having to rip the entire bathroom out!
As for your particular issue given the design of the cistern I can't see how the missing lid would lead to the leak as there appears to be a gap between the lid and the part you circled. However, if it were missing, the part you circled would certainly seem to be a problem if the filling valve failed open as it would allow water to flow out that way rather than going down the overflow pipe. Do you have other cisterns installed at the same time? Are they also missing this part? Proving that it was the plumber's negligence and that he didn't fit the part would be, in my opinion, an almost impossible task. I suspect it would boil down to him saying that he did fit it and he can't be held accountable for some mystery individual removing it in the meantime.
Do you have house insurance that might help to cover the cost of the damaged flooring?
As for your particular issue given the design of the cistern I can't see how the missing lid would lead to the leak as there appears to be a gap between the lid and the part you circled. However, if it were missing, the part you circled would certainly seem to be a problem if the filling valve failed open as it would allow water to flow out that way rather than going down the overflow pipe. Do you have other cisterns installed at the same time? Are they also missing this part? Proving that it was the plumber's negligence and that he didn't fit the part would be, in my opinion, an almost impossible task. I suspect it would boil down to him saying that he did fit it and he can't be held accountable for some mystery individual removing it in the meantime.
Do you have house insurance that might help to cover the cost of the damaged flooring?
You will almost certainly have one of these…
https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-push-button...
The overflow is the pipe on the side leading to the centre of the valve.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-push-button...
The overflow is the pipe on the side leading to the centre of the valve.
Ok. I have no idea why that’s been cut out but there, presumably, is a reason. Tradesmen don’t make extra work for themselves if they don’t need to. It certainly looks like the centre overflow is set too high but trying to prove it after 13 months would, I would think, be almost impossible.
All your plumber has to do is claim it was correct and you’ve altered it for some reason, like getting a longer flush, and how do you prove otherwise?
I’m sorry to say that I think this one will be down to your insurance not the plumber’s.
All your plumber has to do is claim it was correct and you’ve altered it for some reason, like getting a longer flush, and how do you prove otherwise?
I’m sorry to say that I think this one will be down to your insurance not the plumber’s.
Hmmm...
The plot thickens...
Having looked for this in a bit more detail I did a reverse search of your image and found that the cistern in question is the NUIE XTY006 'Cable Conc Universal Access Cistern'.
On the Nuie bathrooms website https://cdn.nuiebathrooms.com/images/xty006_cerami... " Target="_blank" rel="nofollow"> https://www.nuiebathrooms.com/products/ceramics/ci... [/url] there is a fitting sheet for the cistern [url] https://cdn.nuiebathrooms.com/images/xty006_cerami... which gives a nice image to show how the cistern should be fitted.
On the image it would appear that the water inlet valve is probably pretty generic for a number of cisterns and the height of the water is adjustible to suit the preferred flush volume. On the fitting image there is a large asterisk and a box that says, in bold 'See Step 2'. Reading step 2 it clearly states "ENSURE THAT THE OVERFLOW TUBE IS CUT MIDWAY BETWEEN THE WATER LEVEL AND THE LOWEST EDGE OF THE CISTERN BOX CUT-OUT. THIS CAN BE DONE BY REMOVING THE PLASTIC TRIM (IF FITTED) AND TRIMMING WITH A FINE TOOTHED SAW. AFTER TRIMMING REPLACE THE PLASTIC TRIM." (Their capitals, not mine!
)
As the previous poster mentions, these cisterns typically overflow into the pan and it's evident from the image how this would happen (I was wrong in my previous post when I assumed that the pipe on the left of your picture was the overflow when it's actually the water inlet). It would seem that your plumber didn't cut the overflow tube to the correct length and it has been left too long which, in the absence of the 'Removable Front Access Plate' has allowed the water to overflow out of the cistern rather than down the pipe.
I would therefore suggest that an 'uncut' overflow pipe is evidence of an incorrect fitting by the plumber which might give you some leverage in your discussions with him.
The plot thickens...
Having looked for this in a bit more detail I did a reverse search of your image and found that the cistern in question is the NUIE XTY006 'Cable Conc Universal Access Cistern'.
On the Nuie bathrooms website https://cdn.nuiebathrooms.com/images/xty006_cerami... " Target="_blank" rel="nofollow"> https://www.nuiebathrooms.com/products/ceramics/ci... [/url] there is a fitting sheet for the cistern [url] https://cdn.nuiebathrooms.com/images/xty006_cerami... which gives a nice image to show how the cistern should be fitted.
On the image it would appear that the water inlet valve is probably pretty generic for a number of cisterns and the height of the water is adjustible to suit the preferred flush volume. On the fitting image there is a large asterisk and a box that says, in bold 'See Step 2'. Reading step 2 it clearly states "ENSURE THAT THE OVERFLOW TUBE IS CUT MIDWAY BETWEEN THE WATER LEVEL AND THE LOWEST EDGE OF THE CISTERN BOX CUT-OUT. THIS CAN BE DONE BY REMOVING THE PLASTIC TRIM (IF FITTED) AND TRIMMING WITH A FINE TOOTHED SAW. AFTER TRIMMING REPLACE THE PLASTIC TRIM." (Their capitals, not mine!
)As the previous poster mentions, these cisterns typically overflow into the pan and it's evident from the image how this would happen (I was wrong in my previous post when I assumed that the pipe on the left of your picture was the overflow when it's actually the water inlet). It would seem that your plumber didn't cut the overflow tube to the correct length and it has been left too long which, in the absence of the 'Removable Front Access Plate' has allowed the water to overflow out of the cistern rather than down the pipe.
I would therefore suggest that an 'uncut' overflow pipe is evidence of an incorrect fitting by the plumber which might give you some leverage in your discussions with him.
Wanger Dank said:
It flows down the centre, a picture paints a thousand words. 
It looks like the trapezoid piece has been cut out as the plastic is burred around the shape.
Your overflow pipe looks to have remarkably smooth edges which suggests it hasn't been cut to the correct length as the fitting instructions clearly specify.It looks like the trapezoid piece has been cut out as the plastic is burred around the shape.
Well done Mr. SiH. That makes sense.
Unusual set up. Normally the water height is adjustable by raising or lowering the tube rather than cutting it.
Also, looking at your link, who on earth makes cisterns out of stainless steel rather than plastic!
OP, this gives you a fighting chance. At least your plumber can’t claim you’ve fiddled with it if it clearly hasn’t been cut.
Unusual set up. Normally the water height is adjustable by raising or lowering the tube rather than cutting it.
Also, looking at your link, who on earth makes cisterns out of stainless steel rather than plastic!
OP, this gives you a fighting chance. At least your plumber can’t claim you’ve fiddled with it if it clearly hasn’t been cut.
Some excellent sleuthing! To be honest I genuinely didn't think about the overflow pipe needing to be trimmed, I just thought the cistern would be the keeper of the water (but what do I know, as I am not a plumber!)
It's a bloody pain for sure, as the overflow is definitely too high otherwise I wouldn't have had a water feature.
At least I now have something for my back pocket!
Cheers for the quick responses
It's a bloody pain for sure, as the overflow is definitely too high otherwise I wouldn't have had a water feature.
At least I now have something for my back pocket!
Cheers for the quick responses
Edited by Wanger Dank on Wednesday 3rd November 00:03
Fantastic sleuthing by SiH, well done sir, however I don't think that is the only problem. Even if the overflow was fitted/adjusted correctly it would have used an awful lot of water if it was continually overflowing. (Although you would probably have had the advantage of being able to see the water going into the pan).
Surely the main problem is that the main inlet shut-off valve (the floaty bit) was adjusted wrongly, although the plumber will claim it was adjusted correctly and has since furred up with limescale - and he might be right. Depends when it started overflowing, which is impossible to know as the overflow could not be seen!
Either way, a professionally installed system should last longer than 13 months.
Contact the plumber and good luck.
Surely the main problem is that the main inlet shut-off valve (the floaty bit) was adjusted wrongly, although the plumber will claim it was adjusted correctly and has since furred up with limescale - and he might be right. Depends when it started overflowing, which is impossible to know as the overflow could not be seen!
Either way, a professionally installed system should last longer than 13 months.
Contact the plumber and good luck.
The problem is the overflow being set higher than the lowest point of the cistern top lip. I have these cisterns and the trapezoid comes like that, it hasn't been cut out by the installer.
The assumption with toilet cisterns is that the water control valve WILL leak and the overflow is the protection from that happening.
The assumption with toilet cisterns is that the water control valve WILL leak and the overflow is the protection from that happening.
My guess is that bizarre looking cutout is made at the factory - in order to make it really bloody obvious where the overflow must be set lower than. If the cutout wasn't there, a plumber could set the overflow as it has been done - assuming that since the overflow is below the top of the tank that it would work - however in reality the water would leak out of the screw holes in the back.
So they put a big obvious cutout in to make it blindingly obvious that the overflow needs to be lower than the cutout. So you have, by the visible proof that the overflow pipes have not been cut, what looks proof of negligence by the installer.
Simple test #1 by the installer - which is hold the float down until the overflow triggers, in order to test the overflow - cannot have been done.
I would be getting the boss of the bathroom installer round for a firm conversation..
So they put a big obvious cutout in to make it blindingly obvious that the overflow needs to be lower than the cutout. So you have, by the visible proof that the overflow pipes have not been cut, what looks proof of negligence by the installer.
Simple test #1 by the installer - which is hold the float down until the overflow triggers, in order to test the overflow - cannot have been done.
I would be getting the boss of the bathroom installer round for a firm conversation..
Edited by another-steveb on Thursday 4th November 00:07
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