Dealer says car is his private car…
Discussion
Title says dealer is calling it his personal car. OP talks about dealer writing it was a trade sale on the receipt.
Which is it?
If the car was sold with a known problem relating to traction control and now has a fault with the gearbox, I don't see how that would be classed as misdescribed unless they are clearly two different faults- but those are so closely linked I'd expect them to be one and the same.
OP says he had the TC fault 'fixed' but not by the selling dealer. Who 'fixed' it?
A car having faults found on an mot but not at the time of sale would depend on whether they would be expected on a car of that age and condition. How old is the car, op?
Which is it?
If the car was sold with a known problem relating to traction control and now has a fault with the gearbox, I don't see how that would be classed as misdescribed unless they are clearly two different faults- but those are so closely linked I'd expect them to be one and the same.
OP says he had the TC fault 'fixed' but not by the selling dealer. Who 'fixed' it?
A car having faults found on an mot but not at the time of sale would depend on whether they would be expected on a car of that age and condition. How old is the car, op?
CraigyMc said:
Title says dealer is calling it his personal car. OP talks about dealer writing it was a trade sale on the receipt.
Which is it?
If the car was sold with a known problem relating to traction control and now has a fault with the gearbox, I don't see how that would be classed as misdescribed unless they are clearly two different faults- but those are so closely linked I'd expect them to be one and the same.
OP says he had the TC fault 'fixed' but not by the selling dealer. Who 'fixed' it?
A car having faults found on an mot but not at the time of sale would depend on whether they would be expected on a car of that age and condition. How old is the car, op?
What don’t you understand? Which is it?
If the car was sold with a known problem relating to traction control and now has a fault with the gearbox, I don't see how that would be classed as misdescribed unless they are clearly two different faults- but those are so closely linked I'd expect them to be one and the same.
OP says he had the TC fault 'fixed' but not by the selling dealer. Who 'fixed' it?
A car having faults found on an mot but not at the time of sale would depend on whether they would be expected on a car of that age and condition. How old is the car, op?
The receipt says trade sale and the seller said it was his own car.
The traction fault was a speed sensor on the front hub.
The gearbox fault is valve body fault.
Not related.
Why are you referring to me as a third person like I’m not reading it or seeing this?
JoPo1 said:
CraigyMc said:
Title says dealer is calling it his personal car. OP talks about dealer writing it was a trade sale on the receipt.
Which is it?
If the car was sold with a known problem relating to traction control and now has a fault with the gearbox, I don't see how that would be classed as misdescribed unless they are clearly two different faults- but those are so closely linked I'd expect them to be one and the same.
OP says he had the TC fault 'fixed' but not by the selling dealer. Who 'fixed' it?
A car having faults found on an mot but not at the time of sale would depend on whether they would be expected on a car of that age and condition. How old is the car, op?
What don’t you understand? Which is it?
If the car was sold with a known problem relating to traction control and now has a fault with the gearbox, I don't see how that would be classed as misdescribed unless they are clearly two different faults- but those are so closely linked I'd expect them to be one and the same.
OP says he had the TC fault 'fixed' but not by the selling dealer. Who 'fixed' it?
A car having faults found on an mot but not at the time of sale would depend on whether they would be expected on a car of that age and condition. How old is the car, op?
The receipt says trade sale and the seller said it was his own car.
The traction fault was a speed sensor on the front hub.
The gearbox fault is valve body fault.
Not related.
Why are you referring to me as a third person like I’m not reading it or seeing this?
It matters who did the work on the TC if the transmission issue was related. You appear adamant that it's not, but if you expected a dealer to rectify someone else's issue you will be disappointed.
I said 'op' as in, opening post. No 3rd person.
Oh dear 
The dealer has shifted a borked motor that he got landed with (or picked up cheaply for this purpose), using the classic s**tty backstreet tactic of pretending that he wasn't selling it as a dealer. Sadly, I doubt this will end well OP.
If he operates a decent sized dealership and appears outwardly reputable then it's worth suggesting that you'll take him to court and report him to Trading Standards etc, he may prefer to take back his lemon and return your cash and try his luck fobbing off someone else with it. If he's got a portacabin on some scrubland you're probably not going to get much joy out of him.
The dealer has shifted a borked motor that he got landed with (or picked up cheaply for this purpose), using the classic s**tty backstreet tactic of pretending that he wasn't selling it as a dealer. Sadly, I doubt this will end well OP.
If he operates a decent sized dealership and appears outwardly reputable then it's worth suggesting that you'll take him to court and report him to Trading Standards etc, he may prefer to take back his lemon and return your cash and try his luck fobbing off someone else with it. If he's got a portacabin on some scrubland you're probably not going to get much joy out of him.
It's a private sale or sale to the trade so I'd have said there was effectively there is no comeback, unless you can prove that the fault was there when the car was owned by the previous owner and known to them.
I assume you paid less for the car than you would have had the car being in perfect working order with a warranty and other buyer protections, this is why. Dealers aren't stupid, any car sold with faults is liable to be something they've investigated and decided is going to cost more than their markup on the purchase price, or is going to be returned with warranty issues.
I assume you paid less for the car than you would have had the car being in perfect working order with a warranty and other buyer protections, this is why. Dealers aren't stupid, any car sold with faults is liable to be something they've investigated and decided is going to cost more than their markup on the purchase price, or is going to be returned with warranty issues.
When did you buy it?
He’s trying it on and you’d walk it in court. He has to demonstrate that you are a trader for it to be a trade sale. Speak to Citizens Advice. Purchase needs to be within 6 months, ideally with 1. He either doesn’t have a clue how the law works or is chancing his arm that you’ll fold. Magistrates do not take kindly to traders trying to shirk responsibility.
He’s trying it on and you’d walk it in court. He has to demonstrate that you are a trader for it to be a trade sale. Speak to Citizens Advice. Purchase needs to be within 6 months, ideally with 1. He either doesn’t have a clue how the law works or is chancing his arm that you’ll fold. Magistrates do not take kindly to traders trying to shirk responsibility.
Might be worth checking the previous registered keepers on the log book? If he's telling the truth you should see both his name and his brother's name listed on there?
Although irrespective of that I suspect your usual rights buying from a dealer apply.
Although irrespective of that I suspect your usual rights buying from a dealer apply.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 30th November 07:42
essayer said:
Reject it for a refund under the short term right to reject.
Maintain that you believed it was a retail sale. Keep copies of the adverts and correspondence
Dealer is on dodgy ground and he knows it. Do not be swayed or hoodwinked. Law is on your side
He didn't believe it was a retail sale though. Regardless of the sellers position it's not a good idea to lie if you're going down the legal route.Maintain that you believed it was a retail sale. Keep copies of the adverts and correspondence
Dealer is on dodgy ground and he knows it. Do not be swayed or hoodwinked. Law is on your side
OP, was the previous owner the sellers brother as he stated? Was the V5 in the sellers name?
The trade sale bit is b
ks so don't be concerned about that. You are not a trader so consumer law applies. The important thing is to establish if it was genuinely a personal car being sold.Question is, did you buy it privately, from his house, or did you buy it from the dealership, with some weasely language thrown in?
If it came from his house, it's a private sale and you are where you are. If it came from the dealership, I'd suggest that it was a retail sale with an agreed discount.
The fact he's written 'Trade sale' suggests to me the latter. The dealer knows this doesn't stand up legally.
If it came from his house, it's a private sale and you are where you are. If it came from the dealership, I'd suggest that it was a retail sale with an agreed discount.
The fact he's written 'Trade sale' suggests to me the latter. The dealer knows this doesn't stand up legally.
Some Consumer Website said:
If a car is being advertised on a dealer’s website, or on their premises, it is a dealer sale and you can expect the full protection of the Consumer Rights Act and the Road Traffic Act.
If a dealer tries to spin you a story that this particular car might be advertised on their website but it’s actually his wife’s/mother’s/daughter’s private car and he’s just using the site to advertise it for them, he’s lying. Leave immediately.
If a dealer tries to spin you a story that this particular car might be advertised on their website but it’s actually his wife’s/mother’s/daughter’s private car and he’s just using the site to advertise it for them, he’s lying. Leave immediately.
Call me a suspicious so and so but I don't believe anything a car dealer says, and I check everything out myself that I can. I wear old clothes and lie on the floor with a torch checking underneath, I check every bulb, every switch, and drive the car hard on test drive. I examine all the paperwork myself, and do the HP check myself too. I research the model for known faults and ways of checking for this. I appreciate that someone buying an approved used car from a main dealer might not need to do this, but I would anyway. I'm just set in my ways 
kambites said:
Might be worth checking the previous registered keepers on the log book? If he's telling the truth you should see both his name and his brother's name listed on there?
Although irrespective of that I suspect your usual rights buying from a dealer apply.
Those details are no longer on the V5.Although irrespective of that I suspect your usual rights buying from a dealer apply.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 30th November 07:42
OP. Unfortunately it sounds like you've been stitched up like a kipper. All this stuff about short term right to reject is all well and good with a reputable business, but someone who sells their 'private' car and sticks a 'sold as seen' receipt in with the book pack so you don't see it isn't setting off my 'good guy' alarm!
He advertised it with his dealer details and tried to palm it off as a trade sale, he's trying it on. Treat it as the retail sale it is and push back.
I've got no issue with the idea of buying something from a dealer sold as seen with no comeback, provided everyone knows what the deal is, but trying to obfuscate things like this is a no-no.
I've got no issue with the idea of buying something from a dealer sold as seen with no comeback, provided everyone knows what the deal is, but trying to obfuscate things like this is a no-no.
essayer said:
98elise said:
He didn't believe it was a retail sale though. Regardless of the sellers position it's not a good idea to lie if you're going down the legal route.
It is a retail sale. The dealer doesn’t get to choose that.The OP can't claim he believed it was a dealer sale if he believed it was a private sale. He may believe it now (and I suspect he's right) but that's something that needs evidence.
JoPo1 said:
I recently bought a car for sub £20k.
Listed on Autotrader and eBay by ABCD Commercials LTD (Not real name to be clear).
>snip<
Looking through the ‘vehicle pack’ I’ve found the ‘proof of sale’.
It’s hand written and says his name sold the car to my name on x date for x amount with the following ‘Trade sale, sold as tested.’
Contacted the dealer who said I knew it was a faulty car and that it’s a trade sale so ‘sold as seen’.
If the car was advertised by the dealer and not as a private sale, it's a dealer sale. The dealer can't use his business to sell a car then claim because it's 'his' car it's a private sale.Listed on Autotrader and eBay by ABCD Commercials LTD (Not real name to be clear).
>snip<
Looking through the ‘vehicle pack’ I’ve found the ‘proof of sale’.
It’s hand written and says his name sold the car to my name on x date for x amount with the following ‘Trade sale, sold as tested.’
Contacted the dealer who said I knew it was a faulty car and that it’s a trade sale so ‘sold as seen’.
Also, it can't be a trade sale.....because you're not in the trade (presumably)
Seems like the dealer is trying to get out of his obligations. When did you buy the car?
kambites said:
Might be worth checking the previous registered keepers on the log book? If he's telling the truth you should see both his name and his brother's name listed on there?
Although irrespective of that I suspect your usual rights buying from a dealer apply.
Previous RK details aren’t on the V5 anymore due to GDPR Although irrespective of that I suspect your usual rights buying from a dealer apply.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 30th November 07:42
The Rotrex Kid said:
kambites said:
Might be worth checking the previous registered keepers on the log book? If he's telling the truth you should see both his name and his brother's name listed on there?
Although irrespective of that I suspect your usual rights buying from a dealer apply.
Those details are no longer on the V5.Although irrespective of that I suspect your usual rights buying from a dealer apply.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 30th November 07:42
OP. Unfortunately it sounds like you've been stitched up like a kipper. All this stuff about short term right to reject is all well and good with a reputable business, but someone who sells their 'private' car and sticks a 'sold as seen' receipt in with the book pack so you don't see it isn't setting off my 'good guy' alarm!
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff