How are big companies held to account for small claims?
Discussion
Someone has recently had a thread on here where they are struggling to get a refund out of Amazon for some headphones, where it seems a switcheroo has occurred at some point when they have not been in possession of the headphones.
It got me to thinking - from time to time, surely individuals must find themselves in a position where they need to take massive corporations to small claims court. So, not some big newsworthy court case, but rather a few hundred pounds.
First problem: does anyone actually show up from the big corporation? If it's only a few £100s then the cost of just paying it would be less than the cost of sending doing their homework and then going to court, but equally they wouldn't want to open the floodgates when every chancer realises they can get easy money through fraudulent or "engineered" claims.
Second problem: if the court rules in favour of the individual, how likely is the big corporation to pay it? It lands in the mail pile at HQ (because big corps who deal with the public don't often have public e-mail addresses) and if it even gets to the right department then is someone going to drop what could be a big, high-value (and visible to their seniors) job to deal with a few £100s to some random? I'd like to say their processes would be set up to make it happen but I have my doubts!
Third problem: what happens if they ignore it long enough? As an individual, if I had a claim successfully raised against me and didn't pay it, toughs in bomber jackets would eventually show up with authorisation to take property. But if those same people showed up at a mega-corp site security would tell them to go away and come back once they've got an appointment... back to the second problem.
So... do small claims get enforced against massive corporations, and how?
It got me to thinking - from time to time, surely individuals must find themselves in a position where they need to take massive corporations to small claims court. So, not some big newsworthy court case, but rather a few hundred pounds.
First problem: does anyone actually show up from the big corporation? If it's only a few £100s then the cost of just paying it would be less than the cost of sending doing their homework and then going to court, but equally they wouldn't want to open the floodgates when every chancer realises they can get easy money through fraudulent or "engineered" claims.
Second problem: if the court rules in favour of the individual, how likely is the big corporation to pay it? It lands in the mail pile at HQ (because big corps who deal with the public don't often have public e-mail addresses) and if it even gets to the right department then is someone going to drop what could be a big, high-value (and visible to their seniors) job to deal with a few £100s to some random? I'd like to say their processes would be set up to make it happen but I have my doubts!
Third problem: what happens if they ignore it long enough? As an individual, if I had a claim successfully raised against me and didn't pay it, toughs in bomber jackets would eventually show up with authorisation to take property. But if those same people showed up at a mega-corp site security would tell them to go away and come back once they've got an appointment... back to the second problem.
So... do small claims get enforced against massive corporations, and how?
It's a trading entity so would probably be ltd. You sue the entity and enforce against that. As for an address you send the docs to the registered office address which is logged at companies house. It's usually a firm of accountants.
If the company is foreign then I imagine similar process could be followed but I'd start with a head office in the UK.
If the company is foreign then I imagine similar process could be followed but I'd start with a head office in the UK.
There were a few occasions on the likes of 'The Sheriffs are Coming' where they visited some huge companies for such a small amount, however because of poor admin on their part it's escalated to the High Court and then there's a couple of heavies in the reception with the poor receptionist ringing upstairs for any 
they can muster who has a company credit card
they can muster who has a company credit carddonkmeister said:
Someone has recently had a thread on here where they are struggling to get a refund out of Amazon for some headphones, where it seems a switcheroo has occurred at some point when they have not been in possession of the headphones.
It got me to thinking - from time to time, surely individuals must find themselves in a position where they need to take massive corporations to small claims court. So, not some big newsworthy court case, but rather a few hundred pounds.
First problem: does anyone actually show up from the big corporation? If it's only a few £100s then the cost of just paying it would be less than the cost of sending doing their homework and then going to court, but equally they wouldn't want to open the floodgates when every chancer realises they can get easy money through fraudulent or "engineered" claims.
Second problem: if the court rules in favour of the individual, how likely is the big corporation to pay it? It lands in the mail pile at HQ (because big corps who deal with the public don't often have public e-mail addresses) and if it even gets to the right department then is someone going to drop what could be a big, high-value (and visible to their seniors) job to deal with a few £100s to some random? I'd like to say their processes would be set up to make it happen but I have my doubts!
Third problem: what happens if they ignore it long enough? As an individual, if I had a claim successfully raised against me and didn't pay it, toughs in bomber jackets would eventually show up with authorisation to take property. But if those same people showed up at a mega-corp site security would tell them to go away and come back once they've got an appointment... back to the second problem.
So... do small claims get enforced against massive corporations, and how?
Interesting questionsIt got me to thinking - from time to time, surely individuals must find themselves in a position where they need to take massive corporations to small claims court. So, not some big newsworthy court case, but rather a few hundred pounds.
First problem: does anyone actually show up from the big corporation? If it's only a few £100s then the cost of just paying it would be less than the cost of sending doing their homework and then going to court, but equally they wouldn't want to open the floodgates when every chancer realises they can get easy money through fraudulent or "engineered" claims.
Second problem: if the court rules in favour of the individual, how likely is the big corporation to pay it? It lands in the mail pile at HQ (because big corps who deal with the public don't often have public e-mail addresses) and if it even gets to the right department then is someone going to drop what could be a big, high-value (and visible to their seniors) job to deal with a few £100s to some random? I'd like to say their processes would be set up to make it happen but I have my doubts!
Third problem: what happens if they ignore it long enough? As an individual, if I had a claim successfully raised against me and didn't pay it, toughs in bomber jackets would eventually show up with authorisation to take property. But if those same people showed up at a mega-corp site security would tell them to go away and come back once they've got an appointment... back to the second problem.
So... do small claims get enforced against massive corporations, and how?
One of the reasons for Amazon's approach to customer service was based on the fact that it can be overall cheaper to have a generous returns policy rather than fighting lots of battles... it has made them a lot of money as it is probably one of the core reasons for their growth...
If you sue, then most corporates do have in-house lawyers or external legal teams so someone (probably junior) will turn up
If the court rules against them then they will pay - or appeal depending on the situation. Every company by law has to have certain information publicly available, including an ability to access the registered address - court decisions are likely to be delivered there (which may or may not be HQ) and there will be a process to deal with anything delivered tot he registered office...
If you need to enforce, then depends who is sent in - if they are proper officers of the court (rather than your mate mick from down the market) then they will gain access - will be quite effective in terms of getting your few £100s paid if they are wandering around reception threatening to remove the CEO's car or the reception furniture
It doesn't cost too much to get a successful smalls claim raised (to the High Court from memory) to allow it to be dealt with by official court officers...
Colonel Cupcake said:
As far as I know, bailiffs cannot be prevented from entering commercial premises. Don't know about debt collectors though.
Debt collectors can't enter unless they have a bailiffs licence or by invitation :-). baliffs can use force if they like but not against travelling folk or their dawgs.We sued one of the big travel firms a few years back. They didn't respond. It appears that the paperwork just kept getting passed on to various inboxes and no one actually took ownership of it. The first time one of their legal team looked at the paperwork was when we got to the pre hearing phase where both parties are asked to try and come to an agreement before a formal hearing. Their in house Solicitor realised they were on to a loser straight away and made an offer to settle. A bit of back and forth and we agreed a reasonable figure. About 2K from memory.
Remember also that large corporations monitor their Social Media channels far more effectively than their snail mail or email. Social Media is a far more effective way to get issues resolved than the old fashioned letter of complaint or strongly worded email. Corporations are far more worried about their social media profile than they are about the odd CCJ.
Finally, just for giggles. If you want to provoke a reaction. Find out the name of the CEO and serve the claim to them personally rather than to the Company. Nothing gets a legal team kicked into action more effectively than a CEO flapping because he/ she may get a personal CCJ against them.
Remember also that large corporations monitor their Social Media channels far more effectively than their snail mail or email. Social Media is a far more effective way to get issues resolved than the old fashioned letter of complaint or strongly worded email. Corporations are far more worried about their social media profile than they are about the odd CCJ.
Finally, just for giggles. If you want to provoke a reaction. Find out the name of the CEO and serve the claim to them personally rather than to the Company. Nothing gets a legal team kicked into action more effectively than a CEO flapping because he/ she may get a personal CCJ against them.
I worked for a pretty large UK High Street store in a deptartment which the head office were essentially clueless about. We had an entirely different method of supply chain from specific distributors as opposed to the company warehouse. The finance team would regularly mess up paying invoices, leading to debt collection letters a few times a year, although nobody enforcement wise ever turned up.
It was frustrating as the shop/company would essentially just bully the smaller UK distributors and pay when they felt like it.
It was frustrating as the shop/company would essentially just bully the smaller UK distributors and pay when they felt like it.
Pickled Piper said:
Finally, just for giggles. If you want to provoke a reaction. Find out the name of the CEO and serve the claim to them personally rather than to the Company. Nothing gets a legal team kicked into action more effectively than a CEO flapping because he/ she may get a personal CCJ against them.
If you do go down this route (and I don't recommend it) then make sure you sue both the corporation and the CEO, that way you can drop the CEO from the action once you've got their attention. But realistically you could wind up on the hook for costs for this sort of thing.Colonel Cupcake said:
As far as I know, bailiffs cannot be prevented from entering commercial premises. Don't know about debt collectors though.
Every so often the tabloids pickup a story where a determined David goes for enforcement of his court judgement against the Goliath, and bailiffs turn up at Tesco or somethingI remember a "The Sheriffs are Coming" episode where the HC enforcement guys went to DirectLine's HQ and came out with a cheque for £40k+ for someone.
I'm sure there was another episode where they were at a bank and were sizing up what they were going to remove, but can't recall the outcome of that one.
I don't think it matters how big you are - when the high court has issued a writ, they enforce it.
I'm sure there was another episode where they were at a bank and were sizing up what they were going to remove, but can't recall the outcome of that one.
I don't think it matters how big you are - when the high court has issued a writ, they enforce it.
PorkInsider said:
I remember a "The Sheriffs are Coming" episode where the HC enforcement guys went to DirectLine's HQ and came out with a cheque for £40k+ for someone.
That may have been the episode I was referring to in an earlier post but I'm 95% sure that bailiffs don't accept cheques which is why the company were scrambling about for a business credit card to pay it on (I think they used a few, from memory)This has been very illuminating, thanks all!
I had visions of pyrrhic victories where you win your £200 claim against Global Megacorp (UK) Ltd, but then spend months or years grinding yourself down wondering if you will ever actually get the money out of them. It's reassuring to know that the small man (or trader) has means to get their win resolved.
I had visions of pyrrhic victories where you win your £200 claim against Global Megacorp (UK) Ltd, but then spend months or years grinding yourself down wondering if you will ever actually get the money out of them. It's reassuring to know that the small man (or trader) has means to get their win resolved.
donkmeister said:
This has been very illuminating, thanks all!
I had visions of pyrrhic victories where you win your £200 claim against Global Megacorp (UK) Ltd, but then spend months or years grinding yourself down wondering if you will ever actually get the money out of them. It's reassuring to know that the small man (or trader) has means to get their win resolved.
Aye, if you escalate your claim to the High Court, that's when the sheriffs can step it up a bit I had visions of pyrrhic victories where you win your £200 claim against Global Megacorp (UK) Ltd, but then spend months or years grinding yourself down wondering if you will ever actually get the money out of them. It's reassuring to know that the small man (or trader) has means to get their win resolved.
Pickled Piper said:
Remember also that large corporations monitor their Social Media channels far more effectively than their snail mail or email. Social Media is a far more effective way to get issues resolved than the old fashioned letter of complaint or strongly worded email. Corporations are far more worried about their social media profile than they are about the odd CCJ.
I don't think that's been true for years - look at almost any big company site and they're usually full of complaints and the standard response is 'send us a DM' as that takes it off-line. Car manufacturer sites are amongst the worst.They're often run by third parties.
hyphen said:
Colonel Cupcake said:
As far as I know, bailiffs cannot be prevented from entering commercial premises. Don't know about debt collectors though.
Every so often the tabloids pickup a story where a determined David goes for enforcement of his court judgement against the Goliath, and bailiffs turn up at Tesco or something
p4cks said:
PorkInsider said:
I remember a "The Sheriffs are Coming" episode where the HC enforcement guys went to DirectLine's HQ and came out with a cheque for £40k+ for someone.
That may have been the episode I was referring to in an earlier post but I'm 95% sure that bailiffs don't accept cheques which is why the company were scrambling about for a business credit card to pay it on (I think they used a few, from memory)I worked at a London council, and we'd get bailiffs turn up every few months. One jumped our barriers once, and tried to get into the office space to seize computers. But it's all card controlled, and out security just sort of blocked off the doorways from them.
We sent someone down with a card to pay it of course, but the idea of settling via seizing 5 year old knackered pcs is pretty inefficient.
On a different vein, I'd been trying to get an electrical seller to replace my new dishwasher that broke <30 days. They'd been ignoring me for 2 months, when I decided to involve my complaints resolution department (the wife)
After going on Facebook, Twitter and a few stern phone calls, she had a new one delivered within 24 hours.
It was the social media that did it, as they monitor it a lot more than emails I think.
It's a worn phrase, but you've just got to make yourself a bigger nuisance than the next email in their inbox really.
We sent someone down with a card to pay it of course, but the idea of settling via seizing 5 year old knackered pcs is pretty inefficient.
On a different vein, I'd been trying to get an electrical seller to replace my new dishwasher that broke <30 days. They'd been ignoring me for 2 months, when I decided to involve my complaints resolution department (the wife)
After going on Facebook, Twitter and a few stern phone calls, she had a new one delivered within 24 hours.
It was the social media that did it, as they monitor it a lot more than emails I think.
It's a worn phrase, but you've just got to make yourself a bigger nuisance than the next email in their inbox really.
Ian Geary said:
...But it's all card controlled, and out security just sort of blocked off the doorways from them.
We sent someone down with a card to pay it of course, but the idea of settling via seizing 5 year old knackered pcs is pretty inefficient.
If they were high court bailiffs, security/the organisation could have ended up in hot water there. As I understand it, it's considered to be obstructing the court's business if you try to stop them in the act of enforcing a writ. It's not just a bit of argy Barry with a couple of heavies.We sent someone down with a card to pay it of course, but the idea of settling via seizing 5 year old knackered pcs is pretty inefficient.
Regarding the knackered PCs, if they're vital to the operation wouldn't it make them quite an effective thing to go for?
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