Specific theoretical question about using a mobile in car

[robsa]

So I was having a conversation with a mate yesterday about when you can use a mobile in a car, and we couldn’t decide if this was okay:

you are in a traffic jam due to an accident on the motorway, you’ve been there ten minutes, your engine is off and the vehicle is in park. There is no ‘key in ignition’ as the keys, like most cars these days, are in your pocket.

Is this legal? Are you likely to be prosecuted for it?

Any actual lawyers/Police out there who could offer a view?

[98elise]

robsa said:

So I was having a conversation with a mate yesterday about when you can use a mobile in a car, and we couldn’t decide if this was okay:

you are in a traffic jam due to an accident on the motorway, you’ve been there ten minutes, your engine is off and the vehicle is in park. There is no ‘key in ignition’ as the keys, like most cars these days, are in your pocket.

Is this legal? Are you likely to be prosecuted for it?

Any actual lawyers/Police out there who could offer a view?

Do you mean in your hand? Is not illegal to use a mobile hands free at any time.

Assuming you mean in your hand I don't see how it would be legal. You're not parked up, you are being held up in traffic. At any point the traffic could start moving.

[Centurion07]

Fairly sure there was a thread on here a looooong time ago, the general gist of which was somebody had been prosecuted for holding and using a mobile phone in a layby but with the engine running, that being the crucial part, as the argument went that if the engine was running then legally speaking you're driving, regardless of any other circumstances.

So it SHOULD follow that an argument can be made for the engine being off means you're not legally driving. But then you can be prosecuted for being "in charge of a motor vehicle" when drunk even if the keys aren't in the ignition.

HTH.

[mmm-five]

If you're in a long jam (such as when the motorway is shut) then you could always remain completely legal (on the phone bit anyway) and step out of the vehicle to make the call.

[agtlaw]

robsa said:

So I was having a conversation with a mate yesterday about when you can use a mobile in a car, and we couldn’t decide if this was okay:

you are in a traffic jam due to an accident on the motorway, you’ve been there ten minutes, your engine is off and the vehicle is in park. There is no ‘key in ignition’ as the keys, like most cars these days, are in your pocket.

Is this legal? Are you likely to be prosecuted for it?

Any actual lawyers/Police out there who could offer a view?

"The prohibition applies when driving. Driving includes times when stopped at traffic lights or during other hold-ups that may occur during a typical journey when a vehicle can be expected to move off after a short while. In exceptional traffic jams, such as a lengthy stoppage on a motorway, it would be clear that someone wasn't driving if the engine was off. Ultimately whether someone is “driving” will be a matter for the courts." Source: SN/BT/366

Ok, not the best source, but I agree with this.

[robsa]

agtlaw said:

robsa said:

So I was having a conversation with a mate yesterday about when you can use a mobile in a car, and we couldn’t decide if this was okay:

you are in a traffic jam due to an accident on the motorway, you’ve been there ten minutes, your engine is off and the vehicle is in park. There is no ‘key in ignition’ as the keys, like most cars these days, are in your pocket.

Is this legal? Are you likely to be prosecuted for it?

Any actual lawyers/Police out there who could offer a view?

"The prohibition applies when driving. Driving includes times when stopped at traffic lights or during other hold-ups that may occur during a typical journey when a vehicle can be expected to move off after a short while. In exceptional traffic jams, such as a lengthy stoppage on a motorway, it would be clear that someone wasn't driving if the engine was off. Ultimately whether someone is “driving” will be a matter for the courts." Source: SN/BT/366

Ok, not the best source, but I agree with this.

Thanks, much appreciated. So the answer is..... who knows!