Pulling to the side of a yellow box junction
Discussion
CoolHands said:
Can you still be done if you get caught out by lights changing and long yellow box, by pulling to the side so you at no time spend any time stationary within the yellow box?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdjUdPUk97k
Not sure what you mean by "pulling to the side" as I assume you'd still be stopping in the box?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdjUdPUk97k
I believe the offence is 'stopping in the yellow box' - so even if you trundle across at 2mph you haven't stopped.
Although any competent driver would obviously have left enough space between the vehicle in front to avoid entering the yellow box if the exit was not clear - otherwise they may want to re-read Rule 174 of the Highway Code (and the accompanying Law TSRGD regs 10(1) & 29(2))
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 30th December 13:55
CoolHands said:
Can you still be done if you get caught out by lights changing and long yellow box, by pulling to the side so you at no time spend any time stationary within the yellow box?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdjUdPUk97k
For posterity.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdjUdPUk97k
ShampooEfficient said:
The offence is entering when the exit isn't clear. Not stopping in the box.
Close but no cigar. You can enter a YBJ when your exit isn't clear provided you don't stop. . TSRGD 2016 said:
a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
CatShampooEfficient said:
The offence is entering when the exit isn't clear. Not stopping in the box.
It is the opposite.It is perfectly fine to enter as long as you do not have to stop due to another vehicle. In a flow of traffic, your exit won't be clear as you enter... you just have to make sure you don't get hung out to dry if the flow stops.
Legislation says;
"person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."
EDIT: Cat beat me to it.
Stretching a point, but for the OP's question. I guess if you stop in a yellow box but your exit is clear, then no offence has been committed.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Thursday 30th December 16:41
No ideas for a name said:
ShampooEfficient said:
The offence is entering when the exit isn't clear. Not stopping in the box.
It is the opposite.It is perfectly fine to enter as long as you do not have to stop due to another vehicle. In a flow of traffic, your exit won't be clear as you enter... you just have to make sure you don't get hung out to dry if the flow stops.
Legislation says;
"person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."
EDIT: Cat beat me to it.
Stretching a point, but for the OP's question. I guess if you stop in a yellow box but your exit is clear, then no offence has been committed.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Thursday 30th December 16:41
CoolHands said:
Ok I put the video back if you’re interested, it wasn’t that crazy. I believe (London borough) the borough operate yellow box junction cameras. So even if it was ‘dangerous driving’ (!) that isn’t something they can issue.
Seems alright to me. You didn’t stop in the box, and the right hand lane you’re in seems to turn into a right turn filter after the crossing, so I’m not even sure I’d say you were in the wrong side of the road at the point you stopped… You didn’t seem to cross a solid white line to enter that lane either.CoolHands said:
Ok I put the video back if you’re interested, it wasn’t that crazy. I believe (London borough) the borough operate yellow box junction cameras. So even if it was ‘dangerous driving’ (!) that isn’t something they can issue.
mmm... no yellow box offence that I can see.The question becomes when does that 'middle lane' change from being a lane for oncoming cars to turn across you, to a lane for you turning right at the next set of lights that you can see.
In my view you have gone a bit early as there is no stop line at the crossing in the lane you are in. So, actually driving in an oncoming lane.
NikBartlett said:
Always good entertainment stopping just the other side of a box junction, causing anyone stupid enough to follow to stop in the box and get a fine. Nice little earner for councils.
That could be argued that in doing so you then become ‘a person who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles’. The law does not specifically mention ‘the driver of a vehicle…’ShampooEfficient said:
The offence is entering when the exit isn't clear. Not stopping in the box.
As others have said, that's not correct. The offence is stopping in the yellow box regardless of exit conditions. But, what is more interesting is why you along with 99% of the rest of the driving public think the offence is entering when the exit is not clear. The answer lies in the incorrect wording in the Highway Code, which states:
174. Box junctions... You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear.
However, the traffic signs Regulations [ie. the law] state:
Box junctions
11.—(1) Subject to sub-paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), the yellow criss-cross marking provided for at item 25 of the sign table in Part 6 conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
So, if you can see that the stationary traffic on the exit to the junction is about to move ahead it is not an offence to enter the yellow box, even when the exit is not clear, provided you do not stop.
johnao said:
As others have said, that's not correct. The offence is stopping in the yellow box regardless of exit conditions.
But, what is more interesting is why you along with 99% of the rest of the driving public think the offence is entering when the exit is not clear. The answer lies in the incorrect wording in the Highway Code, which states:
174. Box junctions... You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear.
However, the traffic signs Regulations [ie. the law] state:
Box junctions
11.—(1) Subject to sub-paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), the yellow criss-cross marking provided for at item 25 of the sign table in Part 6 conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
So, if you can see that the stationary traffic on the exit to the junction is about to move ahead it is not an offence to enter the yellow box, even when the exit is not clear, provided you do not stop.
I had to read that a couple of times to get my head around itBut, what is more interesting is why you along with 99% of the rest of the driving public think the offence is entering when the exit is not clear. The answer lies in the incorrect wording in the Highway Code, which states:
174. Box junctions... You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear.
However, the traffic signs Regulations [ie. the law] state:
Box junctions
11.—(1) Subject to sub-paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), the yellow criss-cross marking provided for at item 25 of the sign table in Part 6 conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
So, if you can see that the stationary traffic on the exit to the junction is about to move ahead it is not an offence to enter the yellow box, even when the exit is not clear, provided you do not stop.
In basic terms I've always understood it as,
you shouldn't enter a box junction if it causes you to have to stop and subsequently create an obstruction due to not being able to exit the junction before traffic from other directions is due to proceed,
also If you happen to be turning right at a box junction,
then as long your exit is clear I've always understood it to be perfectly legal and acceptable to enter and stop in the middle due to the only thing stopping further progress being oncoming traffic
No ideas for a name said:
In my view you have gone a bit early as there is no stop line at the crossing in the lane you are in. So, actually driving in an oncoming lane.
Happily, unless you cross an unbroken white line (and, I’m sure, some other situations), driving in an oncoming lane isn’t a problem if it’s clear - that’s basically how all overtakes on “regular” roads work, after all. 
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