Will- items bequeathed to someone who dies before you

[poo at Paul's]

Hi.
Missus and I did wills about 25 years ago, and in mine I bequeathed two items to two different friends of mine. One was just a cash gift, but the other was quite a rare, collectible item that was worth about a grand then, but possibly 15k now. I bequeathed this to a mate who was subsequently my best man, but whom we lost in May 21 to cancer.

What happens to my will and this item now, should I die? Would it go to his next of kin, or with him passing, does it just remain part of my estate.

He was a single guy all his life and I only know his siblings in passing tbh. Now he’s gone, I’d prefer that the item stayed within my family really. Obviously if I need to, I’ll update the will, but whilst I’m getting round to that, if I were to peg it tomorrow, what would happen?

[SiH]

To give peace of mind and certainty about what would happen to this item I would definitely suggest amending your will to remove any mention of it (and therefore keep it as part of the wider estate). Any ambiguity may be exploited, particularly when something of value is at stake, so removing the source of this potential issue would seem like a sensible approach to avoid issues for your intended beneficiaries.
IANAL but I'm just thinking about how I would handle a situation like this.

[poo at Paul's]

SiH said:

To give peace of mind and certainty about what would happen to this item I would definitely suggest amending your will to remove any mention of it (and therefore keep it as part of the wider estate). Any ambiguity may be exploited, particularly when something of value is at stake, so removing the source of this potential issue would seem like a sensible approach to avoid issues for your intended beneficiaries.
IANAL but I'm just thinking about how I would handle a situation like this.

Yes, my thoughts too, just need to get round to it and also think about any other changes I’d need to make at the same time.
Just interested as to what may happen if it were left, bearing in mind I outlived him.

[Rushjob]

poo at Paul's said:

Yes, my thoughts too, just need to get round to it and also think about any other changes I’d need to make at the same time.
Just interested as to what may happen if it were left, bearing in mind I outlived him.

If your will stood as originally made and you died, your bequest would go to the heirs of your deceased friend's estate

[K4sper]

Rushjob said:

If your will stood as originally made and you died, your bequest would go to the heirs of your deceased friend's estate

Sorry, that's not right.

If a beneficiary of a will ("B") dies before the testator (i.e. OP), then any gift that B would have received will normally lapse, meaning it would be void and it will go back into the residual estate. It does not become part of B's estate or distributed to their next of kin etc, as until OP dies B does not have any vested right in the gift

[NGee]

Rushjob said:

.............. would go to the heirs of your deceased friend's estate

K4sper said:

......would be void and it will go back into the residual estate.

So there it you have it, a definitive answer in true PH style.
I have no idea which one is right but clearly one of them is talking bks.

If I were you I'd get yourself down to the solicitors and get the will changed ASAP.
(But be careful not to peg it on the way there.)

[Rushjob]

NGee said:

Rushjob said:

.............. would go to the heirs of your deceased friend's estate

K4sper said:

......would be void and it will go back into the residual estate.

So there it you have it, a definitive answer in true PH style.
I have no idea which one is right but clearly one of them is talking bks.

If I were you I'd get yourself down to the solicitors and get the will changed ASAP.
(But be careful not to peg it on the way there.)

Who is to say anyone is, as you say, talking bks? Certainly from my point of view, the exact circumstances outlined by the OP occurred, and the bequest went to the recipients of the predeceased's will, YMMV. NGee is probably right, but it also will depend on how the will is drafted. Certainly the only answer is for the OP to re draft his will to ensure that his wishes are catered for.

[K4sper]

NGee said:

If I were you I'd get yourself down to the solicitors and get the will changed ASAP.

Good advice, for the avoidance of doubt

I'm right, by the way - just google e.g. "beneficiary predeceased testator" and basically all of the results from English solicitors or barristers confirm the same.

The 'true PH style' response is wading in confidently with the opposite of the correct answer

[poo at Paul's]

NGee said:

(But be careful not to peg it on the way there.)

Top Tip!!

[poo at Paul's]

K4sper said:

NGee said:

If I were you I'd get yourself down to the solicitors and get the will changed ASAP.

Good advice, for the avoidance of doubt

I'm right, by the way - just google e.g. "beneficiary predeceased testator" and basically all of the results from English solicitors or barristers confirm the same.

The 'true PH style' response is wading in confidently with the opposite of the correct answer

Hmmm, I called the solicitors that did my will and explained. And they reckon I need to change it ASAP, as the item would be gifted to the estate of my deceased friend, if I were to pass away as it is!
Are they just touting for fees in new will writing, or are they correct?
But the plot thickens!

I’ll need to update I know, just how urgent I need to do it. And should I stay with same firm if they are offering duff info?

Confusing.

[Cliftonite]

Is the simplest way not to add a Codicil to the existing Will?

(IANAL)

[Chrisgr31]

How can it be added to the estate of someone that has died before you? After all if probate has been granted etc the estate wont exist anymore.

[Don1]

I thought this kind of stuff was best covered in a statement of wishes?

[Starfighter]

I asked this question of our solicitor as we are redoing our will. Advice was to have a statement Ian the will referring to gift in a statement of wishes. The separate list can be amended as desired.

[Pro Bono]

Rushjob said:

poo at Paul's said:

Yes, my thoughts too, just need to get round to it and also think about any other changes I’d need to make at the same time.
Just interested as to what may happen if it were left, bearing in mind I outlived him.

If your will stood as originally made and you died, your bequest would go to the heirs of your deceased friend's estate

For the avoidance of doubt this is 100% wrong unless the Will specifically says that in the event of his death it would go to his heirs.

poo at Paul's said:

Hmmm, I called the solicitors that did my will and explained. And they reckon I need to change it ASAP, as the item would be gifted to the estate of my deceased friend, if I were to pass away as it is!
Are they just touting for fees in new will writing, or are they correct?

As I said above, unless the Will specifically says that then if this is actually what the solicitors said they are either allowing someone to give advice who’s not qualified to do so or, as you suggest, deliberately misleading you to generate fees.

[DIW35]

I've just re-done my will, as the earlier one was pretty much obsolete due to a number of changing circumstances. In the first one, I too had bequeathed specific items.

In my latest will, the solicitor suggested that rather than mention specific items to specific people in the actual will, it was possible to probide a list of chattels and who you would like them to go to. This list would then be held with the will.

If at any point in the future I should change my mind about what should go to who or, like the OP, one of the beneficiries should pre-decease me, then it would be a simple matter of just drawing up a new list of chattels.

[Dixy]

Cliftonite said:

Is the simplest way not to add a Codicil to the existing Will?

(IANAL)

This is why we have solicitors, not to add a Codicil or to add a Codicil

[Cyberprog]

You also don't need a solicitor to draft a new will. If you're happy with the previous one, just type it out (or OCR it) and amend as needed.

I've just DIY'd mine. Pretty easy if your estate isn't complicated.

[poo at Paul's]

Pro Bono said:

As I said above, unless the Will specifically says that then if this is actually what the solicitors said they are either allowing someone to give advice who’s not qualified to do so or, as you suggest, deliberately misleading you to generate fees.

Yes, that was my worry. He did ask me to hold and went to ask the solicitor that did wills and that was the answer.
Maybe he was confused or trying it on.

[poo at Paul's]

They want 500 quid plus vat to do new wills for me and the missus!

I think I’ll go shopping for a slightly cheaper option. Need it done right, and I don’t begrudge anyone their professional fees, but it’s a lot to make what should be an easy change.