Credit card fraud caught in the middle
Discussion
Had a payment appear on my credit card statement as Admiral Cardiff for around £250 dated the 28th Dec , i did previously have a policy with Admiral which i cancelled in November and they sent me as confirmation that it was cancelled , the renewal would have been a little under £200 but the policy was most definitely cancelled and shows as cancelled on Admirals website , not only that but they used a different credit card anyhow
My credit card provider says the charge was from Admiral but Admiral have no transaction meeting the reference number given and have no transactions in my name and as I said they never had the card details anyhow
The credit card company are saying its up to Admiral to sort it but they cant find it I'm kinda stuck, apparently i need to wait 30 days before making a dispute
Coincidently (Or not) the card was only renewed at the beginning of December 21 so had been through the post system
A quick google suggests that scammers have used fake Admiral details to set up DD, I'm wondering if I should cancel my card just in case
Any advice ?
My credit card provider says the charge was from Admiral but Admiral have no transaction meeting the reference number given and have no transactions in my name and as I said they never had the card details anyhow
The credit card company are saying its up to Admiral to sort it but they cant find it I'm kinda stuck, apparently i need to wait 30 days before making a dispute
Coincidently (Or not) the card was only renewed at the beginning of December 21 so had been through the post system
A quick google suggests that scammers have used fake Admiral details to set up DD, I'm wondering if I should cancel my card just in case
Any advice ?
Dingu said:
Surely if it’s a fraudulent transaction it is the job of the card provider/bank etc to refund the money and then seek to recoup it from wherever it went rather than have you chase round?
You'd think , but they are saying its up to Admiral to refund it , despite Admiral saying they didnt take it (Which i believe) Sounds like card co are catagorising it as an existing direct debit mistake rather than coincidental fraud so you probably need to impress this upon them.
Unfortunately since the govm. clipped what rates credit cards could charge they seem to have lost any interest in providing the extra services such as using thier teeth and taking care of fraud and errant retailers etc, they now make you jump through hoops and need pushing.
Unfortunately since the govm. clipped what rates credit cards could charge they seem to have lost any interest in providing the extra services such as using thier teeth and taking care of fraud and errant retailers etc, they now make you jump through hoops and need pushing.
Sounds to me like you are in the right. The credit card company is obliged to pay fraudulent payments.
They are within their rights to ask for you to check with the retailer (in this case, Admiral) first to find out if it is genuine or not. Once you have a reply from them that it isn’t genuine - and it sounds like you do - then you should present that information to them and it’s then the credit card firm’s responsibility to pay you back.
They might try and fob you off, but if you quote that they are obliged to reimburse you under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 you should get some action.
If that doesn’t work immediately, say that you would like to lodge a complaint. The word ‘complaint’ is important since as soon as you use it with a Financial Services firm they have to log the case and track and report the result. They really really don’t want to do that, especially in a case like this where they don’t have a leg to stand on, so you should get a more helpful response.
(Just checked and think it’s Chapter 39, Part VI, Section 83 (1): “The debtor under a regulated consumer credit agreement shall not be liable to the creditor for any loss arising from misuse of the credit facility by another person not acting…as the debtor’s agent” )
They are within their rights to ask for you to check with the retailer (in this case, Admiral) first to find out if it is genuine or not. Once you have a reply from them that it isn’t genuine - and it sounds like you do - then you should present that information to them and it’s then the credit card firm’s responsibility to pay you back.
They might try and fob you off, but if you quote that they are obliged to reimburse you under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 you should get some action.
If that doesn’t work immediately, say that you would like to lodge a complaint. The word ‘complaint’ is important since as soon as you use it with a Financial Services firm they have to log the case and track and report the result. They really really don’t want to do that, especially in a case like this where they don’t have a leg to stand on, so you should get a more helpful response.
(Just checked and think it’s Chapter 39, Part VI, Section 83 (1): “The debtor under a regulated consumer credit agreement shall not be liable to the creditor for any loss arising from misuse of the credit facility by another person not acting…as the debtor’s agent” )
Edited by 67Dino on Saturday 8th January 14:14
OK, I think I understand the situation here:
1) You have a charge on your credit card that appears to come from Admiral.
2) You do have a policy with Admiral, but have not given them these card details.
3) They have no record of you making that payment.
Is that correct?
If so, what has happened is that someone else has stolen your card details and made a payment with it. As a result there’s no reason that Admiral should have a record of it associated with your account. They would need to search all of their customer accounts for this card. However, those accounts are nothing to do with you and not your responsibility, any more than if the fraudulent payment had been made at a company you’ve never used eg Gucci in Guatamala (I am guessing here). It’s just coincidence you have a policy with Admiral yourself.
The law just requires you to confirm that you didn’t make this payment for goods for you (in this case, insurance).. If Admiral have no record of you as a person buying anything from them with this card - and they don’t - then that is nice proof. That is all your need to provide to the credit card company and it is their problem now.
It is then up to the credit card company to go through an industry standard process called “charge back” where a Credit Card Issuer gets a compensation payment from the Merchant’s (in this case Admiral’s) Acquirer (the company that gives them the online payment capability). But you are not obliged to do anything more, that’s their problem once you’ve confirmed you didn’t make the payment for goods for yourself.
1) You have a charge on your credit card that appears to come from Admiral.
2) You do have a policy with Admiral, but have not given them these card details.
3) They have no record of you making that payment.
Is that correct?
If so, what has happened is that someone else has stolen your card details and made a payment with it. As a result there’s no reason that Admiral should have a record of it associated with your account. They would need to search all of their customer accounts for this card. However, those accounts are nothing to do with you and not your responsibility, any more than if the fraudulent payment had been made at a company you’ve never used eg Gucci in Guatamala (I am guessing here). It’s just coincidence you have a policy with Admiral yourself.
The law just requires you to confirm that you didn’t make this payment for goods for you (in this case, insurance).. If Admiral have no record of you as a person buying anything from them with this card - and they don’t - then that is nice proof. That is all your need to provide to the credit card company and it is their problem now.
It is then up to the credit card company to go through an industry standard process called “charge back” where a Credit Card Issuer gets a compensation payment from the Merchant’s (in this case Admiral’s) Acquirer (the company that gives them the online payment capability). But you are not obliged to do anything more, that’s their problem once you’ve confirmed you didn’t make the payment for goods for yourself.
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 9th January 08:31
1 . Yes I have a charge on my card that states it’s from Admiral taken 28 Dec 2021
2. I do not have a policy with Admiral , I did in the past but it was cancelled in Nov 2021 and confirmed with Admiral and has not been renewed/auto-renewed and the policy was taken with a totally different card/card provider anyhow
3. Admiral have no record of this transaction against my name or more importantly with the transaction number given to me by the card provider which i assume would show against another name if the details had been stolen
2. I do not have a policy with Admiral , I did in the past but it was cancelled in Nov 2021 and confirmed with Admiral and has not been renewed/auto-renewed and the policy was taken with a totally different card/card provider anyhow
3. Admiral have no record of this transaction against my name or more importantly with the transaction number given to me by the card provider which i assume would show against another name if the details had been stolen
liner33 said:
1 . Yes I have a charge on my card that states it’s from Admiral taken 28 Dec 2021
2. I do not have a policy with Admiral , I did in the past but it was cancelled in Nov 2021 and confirmed with Admiral and has not been renewed/auto-renewed and the policy was taken with a totally different card/card provider anyhow
3. Admiral have no record of this transaction against my name or more importantly with the transaction number given to me by the card provider which i assume would show against another name if the details had been stolen
Perfect. So you’re doing exactly the right thing going back to your credit card provider and telling them it’s fraudulent. 2. I do not have a policy with Admiral , I did in the past but it was cancelled in Nov 2021 and confirmed with Admiral and has not been renewed/auto-renewed and the policy was taken with a totally different card/card provider anyhow
3. Admiral have no record of this transaction against my name or more importantly with the transaction number given to me by the card provider which i assume would show against another name if the details had been stolen
Give them the facts you gained from Admiral that this wasn’t you (you not even having a current policy with Admiral is pretty cast iron!), and tell them you’d like the payment removed promptly. Any nonsense and quote the Consumer Credit Act 1974 at them, and threaten to raise a formal complaint if they don’t get on with it.
For clarity, you do not need to talk to Admiral any further (any more than you should have to talk to Gucci in Guatamala if the card was used there). You’ve asked them and they’ve confirmed you didn’t buy anything. You also don’t need to worry about who did this or how, that’s the responsibility of the Merchant Acquirer who took the payment for Admiral and failed to check properly it wasn’t fraudulent (which is why they end up paying the Credit Card Issuer back when there’s a fraud).
Your card company can ask you to confirm that you’ve not shared your card details with anyone unreasonably, lost it for a while etc, but even then, the test should just be a reasonableness one - they can’t expect you to keep you card in a bank vault! If they start giving you the third degree the tell them you’ve been keeping and using your card like any normal customer would and they need to pay you back.
Hope that helps, and good luck!
PS. One final thought: if there’s any chance your other half did this, worth checking. Nothing more embarrassing than claiming fraud and then finding the wife did it. Believe me, it happens quite a lot….
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 9th January 09:28
Sheepshanks said:
I had one card cloned (or whatever) three times (I stopped using it after the third time) and I have to say disputing the transactions couldn’t have been easier and the card company didn’t seem to give a toss.
Yes, companies do vary. It’s just like the way all clothing shops are obliged to give you a refund if the item has an issue, but some try and argue or offer you vouchers and others put customer service first and say “no problem”.Credit Card issuers really shouldn’t mind, since as I say they should get the money back from the Merchant Acquirer through the chargeback process. However, that is a laborious process in itself, and acquirers vary in how quick or good they are at admitting fault, so it’s understandable that credit card issuers don’t all take the more generous approach.
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 9th January 10:39
Ahhh it seems like the mystery may well be solved. Looks like it was my Son, who sold his car back in 2019 and was told to cancel his insurance at the time as he was at Uni, clearly didn't bother doing that or responding to the numerous emails from Admiral in 2020 and 2021 come renewal time and just let it auto renew
We missed it last year as I had a policy with them myself so its two years premiums
Guess this happens in a 4 car household
Cant confirm as it seems he is either still in bed or not keen on phoning home but hopefully he can cancel this year as still in the cooling off period
We missed it last year as I had a policy with them myself so its two years premiums
Guess this happens in a 4 car household
Cant confirm as it seems he is either still in bed or not keen on phoning home but hopefully he can cancel this year as still in the cooling off period
liner33 said:
Ahhh it seems like the mystery may well be solved. Looks like it was my Son, who sold his car back in 2019 and was told to cancel his insurance at the time as he was at Uni, clearly didn't bother doing that or responding to the numerous emails from Admiral in 2020 and 2021 come renewal time and just let it auto renew
We missed it last year as I had a policy with them myself so its two years premiums
Guess this happens in a 4 car household
Cant confirm as it seems he is either still in bed or not keen on phoning home but hopefully he can cancel this year as still in the cooling off period
If he gets in touch they might be able to backdate all the way to sale. Might just need proof of sale or something if he has anything. We missed it last year as I had a policy with them myself so its two years premiums
Guess this happens in a 4 car household
Cant confirm as it seems he is either still in bed or not keen on phoning home but hopefully he can cancel this year as still in the cooling off period
More than worth him having the conversation with them.
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