Paypal Credit and Section 75 Claim
Discussion
Hi,
Bit of help on this please as I can't find much about it online. I bought a Garmin watch from John Lewis and it was put out for delivery on Xmas eve. I was a bit surprised to get a text saying it had been accepted at my house when there was no-one home (we were all out having Lunch/ going to the Christmas panto!).
No sign of the box when I got home. John Lewis customer services were genuinely woeful so it went into a Paypal claim. The case has been closed in favour of the seller due to 'valid confirmation of delivery'- this appears to be just the courier saying they delivered it as the POD seems to be just a picture of the box. This leave me £250 out of pocket....
The watch was bought on Paypal Credit which I believe gives me some kind of right to claim against Paypal directly under Section 75- but there is no obvious way to do this on the website.
Just looking for some advice on what my options are from here from anyone that has experienced something similar.
Bit of help on this please as I can't find much about it online. I bought a Garmin watch from John Lewis and it was put out for delivery on Xmas eve. I was a bit surprised to get a text saying it had been accepted at my house when there was no-one home (we were all out having Lunch/ going to the Christmas panto!).
No sign of the box when I got home. John Lewis customer services were genuinely woeful so it went into a Paypal claim. The case has been closed in favour of the seller due to 'valid confirmation of delivery'- this appears to be just the courier saying they delivered it as the POD seems to be just a picture of the box. This leave me £250 out of pocket....
The watch was bought on Paypal Credit which I believe gives me some kind of right to claim against Paypal directly under Section 75- but there is no obvious way to do this on the website.
Just looking for some advice on what my options are from here from anyone that has experienced something similar.
Yeah it was pretty poor. John Lewis were pretty catastrophic all round. When I called them on Christmas Eve they told me they hadn't even sent it out and it must have been a system error with the courier. Then they confirmed it as despatched on the 28th and the 'track-package' link then told me it was delivered on the 24th after all!!
I think the courier probably left it in a bin or under the car or something- after 4 days with no-one looking for it (as I didn't know to look for it)- then it could have gone anywhere. I don't mind couriers leaving stuff out for me but its not often they confirm it as being accepted and then don't tell you where it is.
I did find that Paypal deems anything under £450 doesn't need a signature (so the courier just needs to say they delivered it)- I don't agree with that but I need to find out what the rules are for a section 75 claim (can't be the same as the Paypal ones!).
I think the courier probably left it in a bin or under the car or something- after 4 days with no-one looking for it (as I didn't know to look for it)- then it could have gone anywhere. I don't mind couriers leaving stuff out for me but its not often they confirm it as being accepted and then don't tell you where it is.
I did find that Paypal deems anything under £450 doesn't need a signature (so the courier just needs to say they delivered it)- I don't agree with that but I need to find out what the rules are for a section 75 claim (can't be the same as the Paypal ones!).
Not sure the answer to your question, but it is extremely annoying that couriers almost default to abandoning packages in front of your house nowadays. We came back from holiday to find a fox had had an absolute feast on a box of chocolate brownies or something that someone had sent us as a present. Bloody annoying.
10. OUR LIABILITY AND CLAIMS AGAINST US
10.1.We shall not be responsible if any person refuses to accept the use of your Credit Account or should we be unable to carry out any of our obligations under this Agreement due to:
us complying with applicable laws or regulation; or
abnormal and unforeseeable circumstances beyond our reasonable control, the effects of which would have been unavoidable despite all of our efforts to the contrary.
10.2.You cannot use a claim against a Merchant as a reason for not making payments to us unless you have a legal right to do so.
10.3.Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 means that if you use your Credit Account to purchase an item that costs between £100.00 and £30,000.00, you may have the ability to bring a claim against us as well as the Merchant if the Merchant breaches their contract with you or the goods or services do not match the Merchant’s description.
10.4.If you dispute any Transaction, you must tell us about this as soon as possible. If the dispute relates to a Transaction with a Merchant in the European Economic Area (the European Union, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) that you have authorised in advance (for example, a payment under a continuous payment authority) you can ask us to refund the Transaction if:
your authorisation did not specify the exact amount of the Transaction;
the amount of the Transaction exceeds the amount that you reasonably expected (other than as a result of exchange rate fluctuations); and
you tell us within eight weeks from the date on which the Transaction was added to your Credit Account.
10.5.The right to a refund does not apply where you have given consent to us for the Transaction to be made and information about the Transaction was provided to you for at least four weeks before the date on which the Transaction was due to be made. If you ask for a refund, we will ask you to provide us with information that is reasonably necessary for us to tell whether you are entitled to it.
10.1.We shall not be responsible if any person refuses to accept the use of your Credit Account or should we be unable to carry out any of our obligations under this Agreement due to:
us complying with applicable laws or regulation; or
abnormal and unforeseeable circumstances beyond our reasonable control, the effects of which would have been unavoidable despite all of our efforts to the contrary.
10.2.You cannot use a claim against a Merchant as a reason for not making payments to us unless you have a legal right to do so.
10.3.Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 means that if you use your Credit Account to purchase an item that costs between £100.00 and £30,000.00, you may have the ability to bring a claim against us as well as the Merchant if the Merchant breaches their contract with you or the goods or services do not match the Merchant’s description.
10.4.If you dispute any Transaction, you must tell us about this as soon as possible. If the dispute relates to a Transaction with a Merchant in the European Economic Area (the European Union, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) that you have authorised in advance (for example, a payment under a continuous payment authority) you can ask us to refund the Transaction if:
your authorisation did not specify the exact amount of the Transaction;
the amount of the Transaction exceeds the amount that you reasonably expected (other than as a result of exchange rate fluctuations); and
you tell us within eight weeks from the date on which the Transaction was added to your Credit Account.
10.5.The right to a refund does not apply where you have given consent to us for the Transaction to be made and information about the Transaction was provided to you for at least four weeks before the date on which the Transaction was due to be made. If you ask for a refund, we will ask you to provide us with information that is reasonably necessary for us to tell whether you are entitled to it.
John Lewis genuinely don't give two hoots- as far as I am aware the Customer Service team are contractors now. Its quite the shock after years of dealing mainly with Amazon (to think I only bought from John Lewis to 'spread it out' a little as no one wants a world with just Amazon).
The T&C's copy above is spot-on- the devil is in working out how to actually make the section 75 claim as there is no obvious way to do this in Paypal :-(
The T&C's copy above is spot-on- the devil is in working out how to actually make the section 75 claim as there is no obvious way to do this in Paypal :-(
1. How can I contact you if I have any further questions?
For more information, you can call PayPal Customer Service on 0800 368 7155.
Hours of service:
Monday to Sunday 8am to 6.30pm (GMT)
If you’re calling from outside the UK, call 0044 800 368 7155
Fax: 020 8080 6518
Alternatively, if you’re an existing customer you can use our secure message centre for all account related enquiries by logging into your PayPal Account.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/paypal-virtu...
For more information, you can call PayPal Customer Service on 0800 368 7155.
Hours of service:
Monday to Sunday 8am to 6.30pm (GMT)
If you’re calling from outside the UK, call 0044 800 368 7155
Fax: 020 8080 6518
Alternatively, if you’re an existing customer you can use our secure message centre for all account related enquiries by logging into your PayPal Account.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/paypal-virtu...
YorkshireWhisky said:
PayPal Credit is not PayPal. PayPal Credit is "Bill Me Later" which is actually Synchrony Financial headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut, United States.
You may have a bit of a battle on your hands because you may have used a loan product and not a credit card product.
Good luck.
You are looking at the US site. The UK site says:You may have a bit of a battle on your hands because you may have used a loan product and not a credit card product.
Good luck.
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A. is duly licensed as a Luxembourg
credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April 1993 on the financial sector as amended and is under the
prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier.
Registered office: 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg, R.C.S. Luxembourg B 118 349.
Deemed authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. The nature and extent of consumer protections may
differ from those for firms based in the UK. Details of the Temporary Permissions Regime, which allows EEA-based firms to
operate in the UK for a limited period while seeking full authorisation, are available on the Financial Conduct Authority’s
website.
ConnectionError said:
Go back to John Lewis and escalate
I agree with this.You purchased from John Lewis and it is their responsibility to ensure you get what you paid for. It is not your job to argue it out with the courier.
If they don’t play ball, I wouldn’t hesitate to raise a small claims court case against them.
The ‘fall from grace’ that has happened to John Lewis over the last 5 or 6 years has been dreadful.
Lord Marylebone said:
I agree with this.
You purchased from John Lewis and it is their responsibility to ensure you get what you paid for. It is not your job to argue it out with the courier.
If they don’t play ball, I wouldn’t hesitate to raise a small claims court case against them.
The ‘fall from grace’ that has happened to John Lewis over the last 5 or 6 years has been dreadful.
You purchased from John Lewis and it is their responsibility to ensure you get what you paid for. It is not your job to argue it out with the courier.
If they don’t play ball, I wouldn’t hesitate to raise a small claims court case against them.
The ‘fall from grace’ that has happened to John Lewis over the last 5 or 6 years has been dreadful.
The claim under s75 will ultimately be with the county court - so PayPal don't need any 'process' as such. Part of the small claims process is usually to give them an opportunity to fix things though - with a warning of court action.
There is no real benefit chasing PayPal in this instance as S75 is ideal when the original company has gone bust or is dodgy in some way and won't respond to court etc. In this case it may be simpler to pursue JL.
Note also that your legal claim will be for breach of contract/non delivery will be the same for PP or JL. Its just that S75 allows you to make PP a party to the proceedings and liable.
I'd write a letter to JL head office or wherever and then start SM court
citizens advice have free template letters etc
There is no real benefit chasing PayPal in this instance as S75 is ideal when the original company has gone bust or is dodgy in some way and won't respond to court etc. In this case it may be simpler to pursue JL.
Note also that your legal claim will be for breach of contract/non delivery will be the same for PP or JL. Its just that S75 allows you to make PP a party to the proceedings and liable.
I'd write a letter to JL head office or wherever and then start SM court
citizens advice have free template letters etc
TonyF1 said:
S75 isn’t relevant as the purchase is through PayPal not the credit card company. A bit of advice NEVER use PayPal and pay via credit card to ensure you can use S75.
OP purchased using PayPal credit, not PayPal.A bit of advice, ALWAYS read what has previously been said before commenting
kestral said:
Lord Marylebone said:
I agree with this.
You purchased from John Lewis and it is their responsibility to ensure you get what you paid for. It is not your job to argue it out with the courier.
If they don’t play ball, I wouldn’t hesitate to raise a small claims court case against them.
The ‘fall from grace’ that has happened to John Lewis over the last 5 or 6 years has been dreadful.
You purchased from John Lewis and it is their responsibility to ensure you get what you paid for. It is not your job to argue it out with the courier.
If they don’t play ball, I wouldn’t hesitate to raise a small claims court case against them.
The ‘fall from grace’ that has happened to John Lewis over the last 5 or 6 years has been dreadful.
I remember John Lewis were "the dogs" several years ago, but lately it seems that's not the case, used to shop there often - to be honest we just use Amazon now
Think your on the loosing side of happiness which is annoying so write it off, pour yourself a drink and relax and dream up a solid way to get the total value of the loss back plus some good luck for yourself. Maybe not perfect but tit for tat these days and as above stick to Amazon as they seem to be the way forward at the moment
Camelot1971 said:
YorkshireWhisky said:
PayPal Credit is not PayPal. PayPal Credit is "Bill Me Later" which is actually Synchrony Financial headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut, United States.
You may have a bit of a battle on your hands because you may have used a loan product and not a credit card product.
Good luck.
You are looking at the US site. The UK site says:You may have a bit of a battle on your hands because you may have used a loan product and not a credit card product.
Good luck.
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A. is duly licensed as a Luxembourg
credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April 1993 on the financial sector as amended and is under the
prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier.
Registered office: 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg, R.C.S. Luxembourg B 118 349.
Deemed authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. The nature and extent of consumer protections may
differ from those for firms based in the UK. Details of the Temporary Permissions Regime, which allows EEA-based firms to
operate in the UK for a limited period while seeking full authorisation, are available on the Financial Conduct Authority’s
website.
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