Deceased Estate - House Clearance Responsibility
Discussion
A friend of mine was joint owner (50%) of a property with her ex-husband.
The husband continued to live in the property after their divorce until his recent death (a period of about 10 years). Aside from joint ownership my friend had no claim on the house contents and had not lived there for more than ten years.
On his death his sons inherited their fathers 50% share of the property and the house contents.
My friend is not their mother and the relationship between the parties is not good. My friend does not live local to the property.
Both parties have agreed to sell the property and the sale process is well advanced. The sons have apparently removed a few choice items, but left the majority of the house contents in place, including their late fathers personal effects and most of the furniture, as they have no interest in it.
The have now sent my friend an estimated bill for 50% of the cost of clearing the house stating that as joint owner she is responsible for the cost of leaving the house in a fit state to sell. The bill is highly inflated in my opinion and includes an hourly rate for their attendance at the property.
My friend feels that, as the sons inherited the house contents, they are responsible for its removal. Moreover they initially made it very clear that they would dispose of the contents and that she had no role to play. They have been "clearing" the house for more than a year.
Involving solicitors isn't really an option given the relatively small amount of money involved, but my friend is reluctant to give in to an unrealistic demand that has apparently been left to the 11th hour in order to "force" her compliance.
Has anyone faced a similar situation or know who should be responsible in this instance ?
The husband continued to live in the property after their divorce until his recent death (a period of about 10 years). Aside from joint ownership my friend had no claim on the house contents and had not lived there for more than ten years.
On his death his sons inherited their fathers 50% share of the property and the house contents.
My friend is not their mother and the relationship between the parties is not good. My friend does not live local to the property.
Both parties have agreed to sell the property and the sale process is well advanced. The sons have apparently removed a few choice items, but left the majority of the house contents in place, including their late fathers personal effects and most of the furniture, as they have no interest in it.
The have now sent my friend an estimated bill for 50% of the cost of clearing the house stating that as joint owner she is responsible for the cost of leaving the house in a fit state to sell. The bill is highly inflated in my opinion and includes an hourly rate for their attendance at the property.
My friend feels that, as the sons inherited the house contents, they are responsible for its removal. Moreover they initially made it very clear that they would dispose of the contents and that she had no role to play. They have been "clearing" the house for more than a year.
Involving solicitors isn't really an option given the relatively small amount of money involved, but my friend is reluctant to give in to an unrealistic demand that has apparently been left to the 11th hour in order to "force" her compliance.
Has anyone faced a similar situation or know who should be responsible in this instance ?
we have been musing this very subject and the info we have deduced is that bills arising from maintaining/clearing or selling the estate will be paid by one party and those fees reimbursed from the proceeds after the estate has been settled.
However this is just two middle aged idiots assuming this and we have an amicable relationship plus the beneficiaries are our children.
I suspect you will need solicitors though
However this is just two middle aged idiots assuming this and we have an amicable relationship plus the beneficiaries are our children.
I suspect you will need solicitors though
Surely whoever has inherited the contents is responsible for the clearance - the contents are no longer the possession of the deceased, but will have been inherited and therefore are in the ownership of whoever inherited... their property - their responsibility...
If the 50% owner (ex of the deceased) wishes I suspect they could send a legal letter to the ex's sons requiring them to remove their property before sale of the property... if the ex also inherited then they should share costs, if they didn't inherit the contents then not their responsibility...
A strongly worded letter by return should suffice without involving solicitors ideally - reminding the sons that it is their property as the deceased can no longer own property...
If the 50% owner (ex of the deceased) wishes I suspect they could send a legal letter to the ex's sons requiring them to remove their property before sale of the property... if the ex also inherited then they should share costs, if they didn't inherit the contents then not their responsibility...
A strongly worded letter by return should suffice without involving solicitors ideally - reminding the sons that it is their property as the deceased can no longer own property...
GoodOlBoy said:
A friend of mine was joint owner (50%) of a property with her ex-husband.
The husband continued to live in the property after their divorce until his recent death (a period of about 10 years). Aside from joint ownership my friend had no claim on the house contents and had not lived there for more than ten years.
On his death his sons inherited their fathers 50% share of the property and the house contents.
My friend is not their mother and the relationship between the parties is not good. My friend does not live local to the property.
Both parties have agreed to sell the property and the sale process is well advanced. The sons have apparently removed a few choice items, but left the majority of the house contents in place, including their late fathers personal effects and most of the furniture, as they have no interest in it.
The have now sent my friend an estimated bill for 50% of the cost of clearing the house stating that as joint owner she is responsible for the cost of leaving the house in a fit state to sell. The bill is highly inflated in my opinion and includes an hourly rate for their attendance at the property.
My friend feels that, as the sons inherited the house contents, they are responsible for its removal. Moreover they initially made it very clear that they would dispose of the contents and that she had no role to play. They have been "clearing" the house for more than a year.
Involving solicitors isn't really an option given the relatively small amount of money involved, but my friend is reluctant to give in to an unrealistic demand that has apparently been left to the 11th hour in order to "force" her compliance.
Has anyone faced a similar situation or know who should be responsible in this instance ?
Did the husband leave a will? If so the executor(s) of his estate will be named in it and as the contents belong to the now deceased husband it is the executors responsibility to deal with unless they are to go with the house when sold.The husband continued to live in the property after their divorce until his recent death (a period of about 10 years). Aside from joint ownership my friend had no claim on the house contents and had not lived there for more than ten years.
On his death his sons inherited their fathers 50% share of the property and the house contents.
My friend is not their mother and the relationship between the parties is not good. My friend does not live local to the property.
Both parties have agreed to sell the property and the sale process is well advanced. The sons have apparently removed a few choice items, but left the majority of the house contents in place, including their late fathers personal effects and most of the furniture, as they have no interest in it.
The have now sent my friend an estimated bill for 50% of the cost of clearing the house stating that as joint owner she is responsible for the cost of leaving the house in a fit state to sell. The bill is highly inflated in my opinion and includes an hourly rate for their attendance at the property.
My friend feels that, as the sons inherited the house contents, they are responsible for its removal. Moreover they initially made it very clear that they would dispose of the contents and that she had no role to play. They have been "clearing" the house for more than a year.
Involving solicitors isn't really an option given the relatively small amount of money involved, but my friend is reluctant to give in to an unrealistic demand that has apparently been left to the 11th hour in order to "force" her compliance.
Has anyone faced a similar situation or know who should be responsible in this instance ?
You don't own the contents but do have an interest in getting house cleared to allow the sale to proceed but any expenses incurred would be paid by the estate (ideally from his 50% of the house).
gottans said:
Did the husband leave a will? If so the executor(s) of his estate will be named in it and as the contents belong to the now deceased husband it is the executors responsibility to deal with unless they are to go with the house when sold.
You don't own the contents but do have an interest in getting house cleared to allow the sale to proceed but any expenses incurred would be paid by the estate (ideally from his 50% of the house).
The husband left a will, the sons are the executors, the contents were bequeathed to them.You don't own the contents but do have an interest in getting house cleared to allow the sale to proceed but any expenses incurred would be paid by the estate (ideally from his 50% of the house).
The cost they have indicated is more than £1000.
Getting a solicitor involved isn't worth the cost, the sons are very obstructive and the solicitors cost will outweigh the benefit. Moreover the house is sold and nearing completion so there is a time factor to consider.
My friend has options, but it would be good to know what exactly does the law say.
I cannot help on the law.
But if I'm reading it right, then your friend effectively has to pay a grand or so to unlock 50% of a house that they haven't seen or had to maintain for a decade, and then never have anything to do with the other parties again.
That doesn't sound like such a bad deal to me.
But if I'm reading it right, then your friend effectively has to pay a grand or so to unlock 50% of a house that they haven't seen or had to maintain for a decade, and then never have anything to do with the other parties again.
That doesn't sound like such a bad deal to me.
Just send a letter back telling them to FRO. The contents are the estate's (so, theirs...) so they can clear it or pay for it from the estate IE their half.
ETA
ETA
deckster said:
I cannot help on the law.
But if I'm reading it right, then your friend effectively has to pay a grand or so to unlock 50% of a house that they haven't seen or had to maintain for a decade, and then never have anything to do with the other parties again.
That doesn't sound like such a bad deal to me.
Although this is a more pragmatic answer!But if I'm reading it right, then your friend effectively has to pay a grand or so to unlock 50% of a house that they haven't seen or had to maintain for a decade, and then never have anything to do with the other parties again.
That doesn't sound like such a bad deal to me.
Edited by Bill on Tuesday 11th January 11:26
GoodOlBoy said:
A friend of mine was joint owner (50%) of a property with her ex-husband.
The husband continued to live in the property after their divorce until his recent death (a period of about 10 years). Aside from joint ownership my friend had no claim on the house contents and had not lived there for more than ten years.
Has she paid anything towards the maintenance of the house over the last 10yrs? Perhaps if it's had a new boiler or wahtever she can look upon that as a saving she's made.The husband continued to live in the property after their divorce until his recent death (a period of about 10 years). Aside from joint ownership my friend had no claim on the house contents and had not lived there for more than ten years.
When FIL died his two sons and my wife already owned a quarter of his house each, and FIL owned the other quarter.
One of his sons had sadly pre-deceased FIL but there was never any query that his wife would get a quarter of the value. We gave her that in full, without any costs of clearance or sale etc deducted.
Wife and I did most of the clearance work and it took ages and I wouldn't have said he had a lot of stuff. I did get quotes for house clearance and it was surprisingly (to me) expensive. We spread bits and pieces over neighbours bins over a period of a few months and at the end we hired a skip, and had the council collect the major items. In hindsight £2-3K to just clear the place was probably about right.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Tuesday 11th January 11:38
GoodOlBoy said:
gottans said:
Did the husband leave a will? If so the executor(s) of his estate will be named in it and as the contents belong to the now deceased husband it is the executors responsibility to deal with unless they are to go with the house when sold.
You don't own the contents but do have an interest in getting house cleared to allow the sale to proceed but any expenses incurred would be paid by the estate (ideally from his 50% of the house).
The husband left a will, the sons are the executors, the contents were bequeathed to them.You don't own the contents but do have an interest in getting house cleared to allow the sale to proceed but any expenses incurred would be paid by the estate (ideally from his 50% of the house).
The cost they have indicated is more than £1000.
Getting a solicitor involved isn't worth the cost, the sons are very obstructive and the solicitors cost will outweigh the benefit. Moreover the house is sold and nearing completion so there is a time factor to consider.
My friend has options, but it would be good to know what exactly does the law say.
Seeing the initial approach I would guess there is more they will try and put on your friend.
In my case my surviving parents house was owned 4 ways, Mums estate took care of all of the costs and expenses but executors are not paid for their time but can claim expenses incurred.
I would see if you can find a solicitor with a free 30 minute consulation to discuss with and don't forget you may well get clobbered with capital gains tax on your share when the house is sold.
I agree with the others. They inherited the contents, it's their responsibility to clear it for the house to be sold.
However if it's not stupid money, then just pay it. I wouldn't pay for their time however to attend. May be a good meeting point, and to stress that you don't *have* to pay for the clearance but will do to help move things along.
However if it's not stupid money, then just pay it. I wouldn't pay for their time however to attend. May be a good meeting point, and to stress that you don't *have* to pay for the clearance but will do to help move things along.
gottans said:
Sounds like they are trying to shift some of the cost when it is really their problem, as a previous poster mentioned small amount to unlock larger amount you should look at this in the round. The property is now empty so who is paying council tax and other bills until it is sold, looking after the garden, etc.
Seeing the initial approach I would guess there is more they will try and put on your friend.
In my case my surviving parents house was owned 4 ways, Mums estate took care of all of the costs and expenses but executors are not paid for their time but can claim expenses incurred.
I would see if you can find a solicitor with a free 30 minute consulation to discuss with and don't forget you may well get clobbered with capital gains tax on your share when the house is sold.
You don’t pay council tax on a deceased property Seeing the initial approach I would guess there is more they will try and put on your friend.
In my case my surviving parents house was owned 4 ways, Mums estate took care of all of the costs and expenses but executors are not paid for their time but can claim expenses incurred.
I would see if you can find a solicitor with a free 30 minute consulation to discuss with and don't forget you may well get clobbered with capital gains tax on your share when the house is sold.
£1000 is about the cost of a whole clearance, not 50%.
When we had to clear a house British Heart Foundation took most of the furniture for free. They will do a whole house clearance for a charge.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/shop/donating-goods/house-c...
We sold the appliances on Facebook, and dropped the clothes into the local recycling centre.
When we had to clear a house British Heart Foundation took most of the furniture for free. They will do a whole house clearance for a charge.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/shop/donating-goods/house-c...
We sold the appliances on Facebook, and dropped the clothes into the local recycling centre.
To clarify a few points.
My friend has paid for maintenance and even upgrades over the ten year period. She also allowed her ex husband to remain in the property even though she could have insisted it was sold. She is not wealthy and this has caused her financial hardship.
She has paid 100% of the council tax since her ex husband passed. As she is currently the only named owner on the title deed this is an unfortunate anomaly that she has had to accept.
In the grand scheme of things it's not a large sum of money and she may well end up paying the amount requested. Probably the sons are counting on the fact the she doesn't want to jeopardise the sale at this late stage.
They have been difficult throughout the process and this is just another obstacle they have put in her way. If the law is clear on this point she could at least throw it back to them with confidence.
My friend has paid for maintenance and even upgrades over the ten year period. She also allowed her ex husband to remain in the property even though she could have insisted it was sold. She is not wealthy and this has caused her financial hardship.
She has paid 100% of the council tax since her ex husband passed. As she is currently the only named owner on the title deed this is an unfortunate anomaly that she has had to accept.
In the grand scheme of things it's not a large sum of money and she may well end up paying the amount requested. Probably the sons are counting on the fact the she doesn't want to jeopardise the sale at this late stage.
They have been difficult throughout the process and this is just another obstacle they have put in her way. If the law is clear on this point she could at least throw it back to them with confidence.
Johnnytheboy said:
Welshbeef said:
You don’t pay council tax on a deceased property
I think you do after six months.Utilities need to keep paying, except water who are ok about some use if house unoccupied & only using minimal amount for drinks when you’re over clearing the house.
GoodOlBoy said:
In the grand scheme of things it's not a large sum of money and she may well end up paying the amount requested. Probably the sons are counting on the fact the she doesn't want to jeopardise the sale at this late stage.
She's waited 10 years for the money. Are they not in more of a hurry than her, call their bluff and put the sale in jeopardy.Who appointed the conveyancing solicitor for the sale? If your friend did then why not use that solicitor to point out to the sons whose responsibility it is to clear the property for sale.
As has been said who is keener to get their hands on the cash? I'd call their bluff or counter with them contributing 50% of the CT as their delay has added to your friends on cost.
As has been said who is keener to get their hands on the cash? I'd call their bluff or counter with them contributing 50% of the CT as their delay has added to your friends on cost.
JQ said:
She's waited 10 years for the money. Are they not in more of a hurry than her, call their bluff and put the sale in jeopardy.
You're right. They're a couple of s
ts and that's what I would do, but she's not a young woman and this has taken a toll on her already. I don't think she has the appetite to drag it on much further.Pinkie15 said:
Johnnytheboy said:
Welshbeef said:
You don’t pay council tax on a deceased property
I think you do after six months.Utilities need to keep paying, except water who are ok about some use if house unoccupied & only using minimal amount for drinks when you’re over clearing the house.
Gov website said:
If you’re selling a property on behalf of an owner who’s died, you do not need to pay Council Tax until after you get probate as long as the property remains empty. After probate is granted, you may be able to get a Council Tax exemption for another 6 months if the property is both:
unoccupied
still owned and in the name of the person who died
unoccupied
still owned and in the name of the person who died
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