Proving identity
Discussion
Hi All,
I'd welcome advice on a matter that my missus is finding very difficult to resolve.
My stepson passed away last October - by his own hand. As part of the winding up process, we closed all his bank accounts.
AFTER we'd closed his accounts, we found that he had an online account with a company called DEGIRO - an online brokerage company, which has headquarters in Holland but with representation in the UK. My stepson left full details of his username and password to access this account and we can see that he had just over £100 in it. We can get into his account, but can't do anything with it.
We contacted DEGIRO many times and have after almost a month, they responded - and that only because we'd left some negative reviews on TrustPilot. We cannot close the account, because money can only be transferred into other accounts in his name - but these are all closed.
DEGIRO asked my missus to provide 'proof' to establish that she is the entitled heir/executor.
My stepson left no will; we have provided DEGIRO with a 'Fact of Death' letter that she received from the County Coroner, which is addressed to her - referencing her son's death. We have also sent to DEGIRO, a copy of his birth certificate (with her name on it), a copy of the invoice for the funeral and a copy of my missus's passport (verified by Policeman) and a copy of my step-son's passport..
We have also provided DEGIRO with a copy of the Death certificate - the Coroner mentioned that . . . "the certificate can be used to notify any interested parties of the death of your late son". Unfortunately, that isn't the same as being proof of entitled heir/executor.
DEGIRO are dreadful at communications, answering only after we put (more) negative reviews on TrustPilot. In their most recent email, they say that acceptable proof, would be for them to be sent "a Family Book or some other similar document before proceeding further ".
What the feck is a 'Family Book' . . . or similar ?
This issue relates to a very modest amount of money, but I don't see why they should keep it.
I apologise for the rant - but it makes me feel better smile .
What more can be done, to prove the identity of someone as 'entitled heir/executor ?
What the feck is a 'Family Book' . . . or similar document ?
I'd welcome advice on a matter that my missus is finding very difficult to resolve.
My stepson passed away last October - by his own hand. As part of the winding up process, we closed all his bank accounts.
AFTER we'd closed his accounts, we found that he had an online account with a company called DEGIRO - an online brokerage company, which has headquarters in Holland but with representation in the UK. My stepson left full details of his username and password to access this account and we can see that he had just over £100 in it. We can get into his account, but can't do anything with it.
We contacted DEGIRO many times and have after almost a month, they responded - and that only because we'd left some negative reviews on TrustPilot. We cannot close the account, because money can only be transferred into other accounts in his name - but these are all closed.
DEGIRO asked my missus to provide 'proof' to establish that she is the entitled heir/executor.
My stepson left no will; we have provided DEGIRO with a 'Fact of Death' letter that she received from the County Coroner, which is addressed to her - referencing her son's death. We have also sent to DEGIRO, a copy of his birth certificate (with her name on it), a copy of the invoice for the funeral and a copy of my missus's passport (verified by Policeman) and a copy of my step-son's passport..
We have also provided DEGIRO with a copy of the Death certificate - the Coroner mentioned that . . . "the certificate can be used to notify any interested parties of the death of your late son". Unfortunately, that isn't the same as being proof of entitled heir/executor.
DEGIRO are dreadful at communications, answering only after we put (more) negative reviews on TrustPilot. In their most recent email, they say that acceptable proof, would be for them to be sent "a Family Book or some other similar document before proceeding further ".
What the feck is a 'Family Book' . . . or similar ?
This issue relates to a very modest amount of money, but I don't see why they should keep it.
I apologise for the rant - but it makes me feel better smile .
What more can be done, to prove the identity of someone as 'entitled heir/executor ?
What the feck is a 'Family Book' . . . or similar document ?
Moderator edit: no naming & shaming
Sorry for your loss. Is the "family book" not the red book that one gets set up for kids as a baby? Not sure how old he was, but maybe he had one, maybe not.
It sounds like they are playing silly buggers. I would be inclined to just write explaining again categorically that he is deceased, and you have provided all such proof provided under the UK's system. If that is not good enough, then they should not be allowing UK customers to trade with them, as there is no other proof of death available.
Whilst 100 quid is 100quid, you have to ask yourself if such hassle is worth it, if they will not refund it, write that he is deceased and as such is not liable for any additional on costs. They either close and refund, or leave it dormant. The sad thing is they they may try to change fees for non trading, which will erode the balance anyway, but then incur further debt. So be careful that in trying to recover his 100 quid for the estate, you dont get on the hook for future fees.
Again, sorry, what an awful thing to have to go through, and people like this just make it 100 x worse.
It sounds like they are playing silly buggers. I would be inclined to just write explaining again categorically that he is deceased, and you have provided all such proof provided under the UK's system. If that is not good enough, then they should not be allowing UK customers to trade with them, as there is no other proof of death available.
Whilst 100 quid is 100quid, you have to ask yourself if such hassle is worth it, if they will not refund it, write that he is deceased and as such is not liable for any additional on costs. They either close and refund, or leave it dormant. The sad thing is they they may try to change fees for non trading, which will erode the balance anyway, but then incur further debt. So be careful that in trying to recover his 100 quid for the estate, you dont get on the hook for future fees.
Again, sorry, what an awful thing to have to go through, and people like this just make it 100 x worse.
I know it's very irritating, but I would just abandon it and move on. If you balance the amount of effort required and the difficulty of getting through to them and the further anger it'll cause versus what you will achieve, it's probably not worth it. You certainly won't be able to inflict any level of pain/punishment on the provider and will certainly incur a whole lot more heartache.
Very sorry for your loss.
Very sorry for your loss.
As others above have stated, and I know it’s not what the OP wants to hear.
Maybe this is a battle you must accept that you’ve lost. You have yet to win a bigger war in overcoming the grief of the death of your stepson. This may well continue for some time in your life, maybe even decades.
I don’t say this lightly, my dad went the same way as your stepson…
Maybe this is a battle you must accept that you’ve lost. You have yet to win a bigger war in overcoming the grief of the death of your stepson. This may well continue for some time in your life, maybe even decades.
I don’t say this lightly, my dad went the same way as your stepson…
Sorry for your loss.
I haven't had to deal with this personally so I can't comment based on experience but isn't this covered when you make an application for probate?
https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/after-youv...
I haven't had to deal with this personally so I can't comment based on experience but isn't this covered when you make an application for probate?
https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/after-youv...
gov.uk said:
You’ll get a document that allows you to start dealing with the estate. This will be one of the following:
a ‘grant of probate’ - if the person left a will
‘letters of administration with will annexed’ - if the will does not name an executor or the named executor cannot apply
‘letters of administration’ - if the person did not leave a will
If there was no will then 'letters of administration' should have been issued - do you or you other half have these? a ‘grant of probate’ - if the person left a will
‘letters of administration with will annexed’ - if the will does not name an executor or the named executor cannot apply
‘letters of administration’ - if the person did not leave a will
Firstly very sorry about your loss.
I would email both their CEO and their complaints department with a polite but “ upset “ request to allow access and return of the funds with the ID already supplied.
Having just endured a year of trying to trace an elderly relatives investments even with full LPA documents has proved interesting and had to resort to the above with some companies who were less than remotely helpful.
I would email both their CEO and their complaints department with a polite but “ upset “ request to allow access and return of the funds with the ID already supplied.
Having just endured a year of trying to trace an elderly relatives investments even with full LPA documents has proved interesting and had to resort to the above with some companies who were less than remotely helpful.
Sorry for your loss. I lost my mum at the start of Covid. Again there was no will. In my case however the process couldn't have been any easier. Bank account closed and funds transferred to me within a week or so, all done online. She had a life insurance policy that I tracked down from direct debit details. Amazingly it had run for 1 year and 2 days, which meant it paid out in full (nothing massive but covered funeral). Again no issues with claiming it.
There is no reason for this company to be difficult other than they wish to be. If they don't pay out name and shame everywhere you can.
There is no reason for this company to be difficult other than they wish to be. If they don't pay out name and shame everywhere you can.
Pothole said:
Wackywoo105 said:
There is no reason for this company to be difficult other than they wish to be..
They're based in Holland. I don't know any Dutch law on this subject. Do you?TooLateForAName said:
This - I'd suggest that 'family book' is probably a poor translation of something specific to dutch law. Ask them to clarify.
They're asking for what in France is referred to as a livret de famille - this is a document which commences when you are married and details the births & deaths of you, your partner, parents and any children. It's a living document which is constantly updated by changes in the family. There is no comparable document in the UKRushjob said:
They're asking for what in France is referred to as a livret de famille - this is a document which commences when you are married and details the births & deaths of you, your partner, parents and any children. It's a living document which is constantly updated by changes in the family. There is no comparable document in the UK
This sounds about right- we also have a red 'family book' in Switzerland- which has info on marriage, children etc.Not something that exists at all in the UK, but likely does across many countries of continental Europe.
Really difficult situation for the OP; I agree with some other posters that I would contact the CEO directly, with all the supporting info you have, and explaining that the UK does not have the document they requested. I disagree with other posters that you should just let the 100 GBP go!
Wackywoo105 said:
Pothole said:
They're based in Holland. I don't know any Dutch law on this subject. Do you?
No, but if this company wants to take on UK customers maybe they should familiarise themselves with our laws. I doubt this will be the first time they have encountered this.Give them a deadline and tell them you will escalate to the FCA if they don't respond in a timely manner. If they don't then send a complaint to the FCA.
sociopath said:
Sorry for your loss, but you don't mention probate or letters of administration etc. Without that they are, I think, within their rights to say you haven't proved your wife is the executor of the estate, and they can only legally release money to the executors
They can release money without probate, a signed waiver is often required(and with some supporting evidence of ID), as the sum of money is extremely small there shouldn't be any need for probate. sugerbear said:
Wackywoo105 said:
Pothole said:
They're based in Holland. I don't know any Dutch law on this subject. Do you?
No, but if this company wants to take on UK customers maybe they should familiarise themselves with our laws. I doubt this will be the first time they have encountered this.Give them a deadline and tell them you will escalate to the FCA if they don't respond in a timely manner. If they don't then send a complaint to the FCA.
sugerbear said:
sociopath said:
Sorry for your loss, but you don't mention probate or letters of administration etc. Without that they are, I think, within their rights to say you haven't proved your wife is the executor of the estate, and they can only legally release money to the executors
They can release money without probate, a signed waiver is often required(and with some supporting evidence of ID), as the sum of money is extremely small there shouldn't be any need for probate. sociopath said:
I'm glad for the OP, assuming that applies in Europe, but someone should tell Santander. They insisted on it for my mum's account
Banks seem to be a law unto themselves in how they decide to pay the money out. Some need probate, some don't.When I was executor for my Father, I got a solicitor just to do the probate bit. They contacted the bank to get a balance. From this the bank decided to send the money straight to the solicitor. At the same time I was dealing with their bereavement team doing ID checks in preparation for getting probate to release the money - which is what they said they needed! After a few weeks of this the bank told me that the account balance was 0. It took another 6 weeks to get the bank to work out what they had done. When they said who'd they'd transferred it to, my solicitor denied having it as they'd not clocked it coming in! What a fiasco
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