Council Fencing Charge
Discussion
I have an old shed in a village during storm Arwen some tin sheets flew off and part of the roof collapsed. We have been busy and had not got round to repairing. Yesterday morning the council erected safety barriers along the back of the shed. A council official phoned at lunchtime and told us there would be a charge for fence. All tidied up yesterday afternoon . As the council didn't ask before putting up fence do I need to pay their demand? The only danger would have been if their was another storm.
stichill99 said:
I have an old shed in a village during storm Arwen some tin sheets flew off and part of the roof collapsed. We have been busy and had not got round to repairing. Yesterday morning the council erected safety barriers along the back of the shed. A council official phoned at lunchtime and told us there would be a charge for fence. All tidied up yesterday afternoon . As the council didn't ask before putting up fence do I need to pay their demand? The only danger would have been if their was another storm.
Yes.From your description it sounds like the council have acted under section 78 of the Building Act to make it safe.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/55/secti...
You knew it was dangerous and by your own admission have said that it was in a condition that would collapse further if there was another storm which is highly likely at this time of year.
There is an obligation to members of the public to ensure their safety from dangerous buildings and as such they’ve done what is necessary to protect them from potential injury.
I’m assuming they’ve spoken to you about it before since they had your phone number? in which case I doubt you have much of an argument against them doing the work for you.
Edited by smokey mow on Saturday 22 January 08:01
Edited by smokey mow on Saturday 22 January 08:12
This is my experience of working as a professional for councils on such matters
Section 78 is for imminent & ongoing emergencies eg an abandoned derelict building with unknown owner that has been structurally impaired by fire that unless immediately cordoned / demolished will be a danger to the public. So if the council doesn’t take action then no one will in the required time frame
Section 77 is where known owners need to take action, a time for action to be taken is stipulated in a statutory notice served on the owner. Which seems like the situation here. If notice is ignored then the council will act.
As this is expenditure of public money which is often torturous to recoup, these measures are taken reluctantly it’s not likely that the procedures have been botched, although sometimes local councillors become involved & hasty action results
My understanding is that Act requires the S77 procedure to be observed in preference to S78 when it comes to reclaiming the dough
The RICS, & others, issue a detailed guide & flow chart to explain the process
Section 78 is for imminent & ongoing emergencies eg an abandoned derelict building with unknown owner that has been structurally impaired by fire that unless immediately cordoned / demolished will be a danger to the public. So if the council doesn’t take action then no one will in the required time frame
Section 77 is where known owners need to take action, a time for action to be taken is stipulated in a statutory notice served on the owner. Which seems like the situation here. If notice is ignored then the council will act.
As this is expenditure of public money which is often torturous to recoup, these measures are taken reluctantly it’s not likely that the procedures have been botched, although sometimes local councillors become involved & hasty action results
My understanding is that Act requires the S77 procedure to be observed in preference to S78 when it comes to reclaiming the dough
The RICS, & others, issue a detailed guide & flow chart to explain the process
Edited by N111BJG on Saturday 22 January 10:14
The council had not been in touch with us at all before putting up the fence but he amazingly found out who owned the shed that afternoon. We have removed the shed now. I object to paying because it was easily solved and if he had phoned us first we would have had it done before a fence was needed. The shed has been in present condition since storm Arwen but they only decided to act over a month after storm.
No danger to anybody anyway.
No danger to anybody anyway.
stichill99 said:
The council had not been in touch with us at all before putting up the fence but he amazingly found out who owned the shed that afternoon. We have removed the shed now. I object to paying because it was easily solvedand if he had phoned us first we would have had it done before a fence was needed. The shed has been in present condition since storm Arwen but they only decided to act over a month after storm.
No danger to anybody anyway.
You have had a month to do something about it and it only took a couple of hours when you finally did, but it needed action from the council for you to do so.No danger to anybody anyway.
Look on it as some sort of lazy, couldn't be bothered tax
.stichill99 said:
There is a tree half fallen over in the churchyard that looks like it is about to fall. Should I ask the council to put barriers around it to protect the public?
No unless the churchyard belongs to the council.Section 78 only applies to buildings and structures, not trees or other vegetation.
Monkeylegend said:
But yet you managed to dismantle it when you thought there was a cost to yourself involved
Just what I was thinking - everyone works 8 days a week and has no time until they’re hit in the pocket… You left it in a state and couldn’t be bothered sorting it so you’re paying the price now.
Next time just take a couple of hours out sooner and you won’t have a bill to pay.
stichill99 said:
I work 7 days a week at this time of year you cheeky t
t! Had to take time off work at my loss.
You can pay other people to do this type of thing if your time is too precious. You'll have to let us know if it was worth working and paying the council, or if you would have been better off just having a day off to sort out your dangerous building.t! Had to take time off work at my loss.You generally don't lose money when you have time off work, it's more you have not gained money by not working.
Someone has reported it, with no occupants and I assume no contact details on the building the council have done as expected.
As someone else said, they will have used a contractor on a 24/7 call out rate that’s no doubt eye watering.
Had you laminated a sign and nailed it in to say repairs in hand with a telephone number I can see a defence, but otherwise not.
As you can imagine no one ever wants to pay these so the councils rapidly go to legal debt recovery.
On the other side, several council employees have been jailed over the years for taking backhanders from the compulsory repair contractors to push things through.
As someone else said, they will have used a contractor on a 24/7 call out rate that’s no doubt eye watering.
Had you laminated a sign and nailed it in to say repairs in hand with a telephone number I can see a defence, but otherwise not.
As you can imagine no one ever wants to pay these so the councils rapidly go to legal debt recovery.
On the other side, several council employees have been jailed over the years for taking backhanders from the compulsory repair contractors to push things through.
Weii I am going to fight it as under Section(2) Before exercising their powers under this section,the local authority shall if it is reasonably practicable to do so give notice of their intention to the owner and occupier of the building or of the premises on which the structure is situated.
As it is on the planning authority's books as I had scoped them about getting planning permission to build on the site they knew who the owner was or they could have just asked the next door neighbour. So we will see how it goes!
As it is on the planning authority's books as I had scoped them about getting planning permission to build on the site they knew who the owner was or they could have just asked the next door neighbour. So we will see how it goes!
stichill99 said:
Weii I am going to fight it as under Section(2) Before exercising their powers under this section,the local authority shall if it is reasonably practicable to do so give notice of their intention to the owner and occupier of the building or of the premises on which the structure is situated.
As it is on the planning authority's books as I had scoped them about getting planning permission to build on the site they knew who the owner was or they could have just asked the next door neighbour. So we will see how it goes!
Good luck with that but I dont blame you trying as I got stung for a 4 figure sum 2 days after it happened so I was hardly negligent or lazy trying to get it fixedAs it is on the planning authority's books as I had scoped them about getting planning permission to build on the site they knew who the owner was or they could have just asked the next door neighbour. So we will see how it goes!
stichill99 said:
Weii I am going to fight it as under Section(2) Before exercising their powers under this section,the local authority shall if it is reasonably practicable to do so give notice of their intention to the owner and occupier of the building or of the premises on which the structure is situated.
As it is on the planning authority's books as I had scoped them about getting planning permission to build on the site they knew who the owner was or they could have just asked the next door neighbour. So we will see how it goes!
Good luck with that but I dont blame you trying as I got stung for a 4 figure sum 2 days after it happened so I was hardly negligent or lazy trying to get it fixedAs it is on the planning authority's books as I had scoped them about getting planning permission to build on the site they knew who the owner was or they could have just asked the next door neighbour. So we will see how it goes!
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