Mini snapped cam chain, dealer woes
Discussion
A friend at work is going through this nightmare currently so I thought Id ask the PH have mind for advice.
Car:
Mini Clubvan, just over 40k miles, bought Mini approved used from a Mini main dealer
What happened :
Driving home from work 2 weeks ago, cam chain snapped. Car recovered to Mini main dealer, we'll call them Dealer A where it still sits
Background:
Car bought as Mini approved used from a main dealer, we'll call them Dealer B, with Mini full service history, approved warranty, friend extends warranty for a further 3 years. Car has been main dealer serviced on time.
Situation:
Once Dealer A caught wind it was a potential warranty claim they didnt want a bar of it, so friend has been dealing with Dealer B who supplied the car. On doing some checking of the cars history it was (conveniently) revealed that the car had a missing oil change 'stamp' for the first service, so Mini say the warranty is void.
Contacted Mini UK who were equally as helpful and understanding.
Friend is understandably aggrieved as he has done everything right, the car was Mini approved used, he paid for the extended warranty, so he believes the missing service is their problem.
What would be the best way to proceed?
Car:
Mini Clubvan, just over 40k miles, bought Mini approved used from a Mini main dealer
What happened :
Driving home from work 2 weeks ago, cam chain snapped. Car recovered to Mini main dealer, we'll call them Dealer A where it still sits
Background:
Car bought as Mini approved used from a main dealer, we'll call them Dealer B, with Mini full service history, approved warranty, friend extends warranty for a further 3 years. Car has been main dealer serviced on time.
Situation:
Once Dealer A caught wind it was a potential warranty claim they didnt want a bar of it, so friend has been dealing with Dealer B who supplied the car. On doing some checking of the cars history it was (conveniently) revealed that the car had a missing oil change 'stamp' for the first service, so Mini say the warranty is void.
Contacted Mini UK who were equally as helpful and understanding.
Friend is understandably aggrieved as he has done everything right, the car was Mini approved used, he paid for the extended warranty, so he believes the missing service is their problem.
What would be the best way to proceed?
swampy442 said:
A friend at work is going through this nightmare currently so I thought Id ask the PH have mind for advice.
Car:
Mini Clubvan, just over 40k miles, bought Mini approved used from a Mini main dealer
What happened :
Driving home from work 2 weeks ago, cam chain snapped. Car recovered to Mini main dealer, we'll call them Dealer A where it still sits
Background:
Car bought as Mini approved used from a main dealer, we'll call them Dealer B, with Mini full service history, approved warranty, friend extends warranty for a further 3 years. Car has been main dealer serviced on time.
Situation:
Once Dealer A caught wind it was a potential warranty claim they didnt want a bar of it, so friend has been dealing with Dealer B who supplied the car. On doing some checking of the cars history it was (conveniently) revealed that the car had a missing oil change 'stamp' for the first service, so Mini say the warranty is void.
Contacted Mini UK who were equally as helpful and understanding.
Friend is understandably aggrieved as he has done everything right, the car was Mini approved used, he paid for the extended warranty, so he believes the missing service is their problem.
What would be the best way to proceed?
Another one if these!Car:
Mini Clubvan, just over 40k miles, bought Mini approved used from a Mini main dealer
What happened :
Driving home from work 2 weeks ago, cam chain snapped. Car recovered to Mini main dealer, we'll call them Dealer A where it still sits
Background:
Car bought as Mini approved used from a main dealer, we'll call them Dealer B, with Mini full service history, approved warranty, friend extends warranty for a further 3 years. Car has been main dealer serviced on time.
Situation:
Once Dealer A caught wind it was a potential warranty claim they didnt want a bar of it, so friend has been dealing with Dealer B who supplied the car. On doing some checking of the cars history it was (conveniently) revealed that the car had a missing oil change 'stamp' for the first service, so Mini say the warranty is void.
Contacted Mini UK who were equally as helpful and understanding.
Friend is understandably aggrieved as he has done everything right, the car was Mini approved used, he paid for the extended warranty, so he believes the missing service is their problem.
What would be the best way to proceed?
You would think that the supplying dealer should be refunding the full purchase price due to the vehicle not being as described.
They sold him it as approved used, but due to the missing service, it can't comply.
Enforcing the refund might be a bit harder though.
k off” surely?!swampy442 said:
Canon_Fodder said:
OP do we have an idea of the repair bill?
I don’t think it’s even been investigated yet, but I’ll ask him.He’s currently n a carousel of getting fobbed off by everyone he speaks to
swampy442 said:
A
What would be the best way to proceed?
Seeing how many other similar threads have gone I suggest going straight for legal advice as the dealers just play people along endlessly.What would be the best way to proceed?
Your colleague won't need a QC just someone who can read the various documents and send a letter to the vendor.
As a former regional manager for a car company you need to do or be aware of the following.
If it has a missed oil change stamp the service can still be identified through either the key fob or BMW systems, either way, you need them to prove that. It might have had the oil change outside the dealer network. The next step is that the dealer/BMW need to prove that the missed oil change directly impacted the snapped timing chain. You also need to find out how often these timing chains should be replaced - 40k miles seems early.
Once you have established these facts, you need an estimate as to the repair, and then you need to contact BMW customer services and hassle them to pay you. Ultimately threatening court action if they won't pay. All manufacturers will avoid court action for items like this.
Finally you also need to establish what good will there is, again manufacturers provide goodwill which might be in the form of 100% parts costs, some labour costs so that ultimately the cost of a rebuilt or new engine is a few hundred rather than several thousand.
However you friend needs to get firm(but remain cordial) and push for a BMW financed solution.
If it has a missed oil change stamp the service can still be identified through either the key fob or BMW systems, either way, you need them to prove that. It might have had the oil change outside the dealer network. The next step is that the dealer/BMW need to prove that the missed oil change directly impacted the snapped timing chain. You also need to find out how often these timing chains should be replaced - 40k miles seems early.
Once you have established these facts, you need an estimate as to the repair, and then you need to contact BMW customer services and hassle them to pay you. Ultimately threatening court action if they won't pay. All manufacturers will avoid court action for items like this.
Finally you also need to establish what good will there is, again manufacturers provide goodwill which might be in the form of 100% parts costs, some labour costs so that ultimately the cost of a rebuilt or new engine is a few hundred rather than several thousand.
However you friend needs to get firm(but remain cordial) and push for a BMW financed solution.
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Tuesday 25th January 08:55
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
As a former regional manager for a car company you need to do or be aware of the following.
If it has a missed oil change stamp the service can still be identified through either the key fob or BMW systems, either way, you need them to prove that. It might have had the oil change outside the dealer network. The next step is that the dealer/BMW need to prove that the missed oil change directly impacted the snapped timing chain. You also need to find out how often these timing chains should be replaced - 40k miles seems early.
Once you have established these facts, you need an estimate as to the repair, and then you need to contact BMW customer services and hassle them to pay you. Ultimately threatening court action if they won't pay. All manufacturers will avoid court action for items like this.
Finally you also need to establish what good will there is, again manufacturers provide goodwill which might be in the form of 100% parts costs, some labour costs so that ultimately the cost of a rebuilt or new engine is a few hundred rather than several thousand.
However you friend needs to get firm(but remain cordial) and push for a BMW financed solution.
These were my thoughts. The chain isn't lubricated, surely, so how on earth can a missed oil change have any bearing on it? Also, yeah, 40K is tiny. A chain failing is phenomenally rare so if it has then it surely has to be due to a manufacturing fault? A chain should be good for 200k miles as far as I've always been aware. If it has a missed oil change stamp the service can still be identified through either the key fob or BMW systems, either way, you need them to prove that. It might have had the oil change outside the dealer network. The next step is that the dealer/BMW need to prove that the missed oil change directly impacted the snapped timing chain. You also need to find out how often these timing chains should be replaced - 40k miles seems early.
Once you have established these facts, you need an estimate as to the repair, and then you need to contact BMW customer services and hassle them to pay you. Ultimately threatening court action if they won't pay. All manufacturers will avoid court action for items like this.
Finally you also need to establish what good will there is, again manufacturers provide goodwill which might be in the form of 100% parts costs, some labour costs so that ultimately the cost of a rebuilt or new engine is a few hundred rather than several thousand.
However you friend needs to get firm(but remain cordial) and push for a BMW financed solution.
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Tuesday 25th January 08:55
AJL308 said:
These were my thoughts. The chain isn't lubricated, surely, so how on earth can a missed oil change have any bearing on it? Also, yeah, 40K is tiny. A chain failing is phenomenally rare so if it has then it surely has to be due to a manufacturing fault? A chain should be good for 200k miles as far as I've always been aware.
Every timing chain I know of is lubricated 
Example Mini engine below. Missed oil change, insufficient lubrication, rapid deterioration and ultimately a failure. Would be extremely unlikely to have been caused by a single missed oil change though (even less likely if the oil change was just undocumented). Perhaps OP could get an independent inspector such as ACE to provide a report on the vehicle. Might be useful if things go legal. OP might refer to the current remapped Honda warranty thread for potential advice, too. 
Richard-390a0 said:
AJL308 said:
The chain isn't lubricated, surely, so how on earth can a missed oil change have any bearing on it?
Because it IS an oil dependant component, although I agree with you that a missing first oil service will have no bearing on the failure now many miles / years later.The chain isn't lubricated, as I understand it, and sits entirely outside of the area of lubrication of the engine oil, doesn't it? Whether it is or it isn't, though, I agree that missing an oil change isn't going to affect the life of the chain.
RazerSauber said:
AJL308 said:
These were my thoughts. The chain isn't lubricated, surely, so how on earth can a missed oil change have any bearing on it? Also, yeah, 40K is tiny. A chain failing is phenomenally rare so if it has then it surely has to be due to a manufacturing fault? A chain should be good for 200k miles as far as I've always been aware.
Every timing chain I know of is lubricated Example Mini engine below. Missed oil change, insufficient lubrication, rapid deterioration and ultimately a failure. Would be extremely unlikely to have been caused by a single missed oil change though (even less likely if the oil change was just undocumented). Perhaps OP could get an independent inspector such as ACE to provide a report on the vehicle. Might be useful if things go legal. OP might refer to the current remapped Honda warranty thread for potential advice, too. swampy442 said:
PorkInsider said:
When did they buy the car?
About 18 months agoIs it in manufacturer's warranty (3 years) or in the extended warranty period.
Not that this matters if you go down the 'not as described' route - the dealer can't have it both ways.
Any confusion or weakness shown by the owner will get exploited by the dealer.
AJL308 said:
The chain isn't lubricated, as I understand it, and sits entirely outside of the area of lubrication of the engine oil, doesn't it? Whether it is or it isn't, though, I agree that missing an oil change isn't going to affect the life of the chain.
You're thinking of a timing belt (rubber/kevlar) not a chain (rattly metal thing, as in the above picture).swampy442 said:
friend extends warranty for a further 3 years.
That doesn't sound right the BMW used assured policy is for 12 moths renewable every year.Dealers do however offer a warranty often in the dealers name and was under written by
Auto Protect Group which can be taken out for upto 3 years. So maybe trying to claim from dealer is maybe not right party. (Car can be taken to any dealer once insurer informed)
Had similar problem with service history records on my z4 car had last servise at Sytners BMW Birmingham they forgot to stamp the book(2009 car) or update the key. Took some effort to find that they had done the service and to stamp service book and update key may be worth finding out dealer that car was first bought from they may have done same -not updated key (maybe no book) . Hopefully first selling dealers name may be on number plates if they are original that came with van
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