Need help getting flat deposit refunded

[timberman]

Hopefully someone can point us in the right direction,

My daughter lived in a flat in Manchester with 2 others and then due to changing jobs had to relocate down to London,

she had to leave the flat at fairly short notice which meant there was a bit of a rush to find a replacement to take her place,

she never met her replacement who moved in the day after she moved out,

this was all done with the involvement of the letting agents, and after leaving she contacted the letting agents to try and get her deposit refunded.

the letting agents stated that the new tenant needed to refund the deposit directly to her and that they wouldn't allow any contract to be signed until this had happened,

my daughter tried to contact the new tenant on numerous occasions via email and included the letting agent in all correspondence but to no avail,

she concluded that the new tenant had no intention of paying the deposit but then found that the letting agents have allowed her to sign the contract anyway leaving my daughter out of pocket

my daughter then contacted the letting agents again to try and get her refund, or at least some assistance from them to get a resolution.

they basically said it's not their problem anymore and that she should carry on pursuing the new tenant to get her money back.

My daughter is now considering going through the small claims court to try and get her money back but isn't sure who she should be pursuing or if this is the best course of action,

she's tried to contact citizens advice but gotten nowhere so far and hasn't had any response from them via email.

so the questions are :-

1... If she decides to go through the small claims court who should she claim against,

the letting agents say she should be pursuing the new tenant,
but considering she signed the contract with them and paid the money to them, are they correct or just trying to dodge having to pay up,

2... is small claims court the best course of action, or is there a better way of retrieving the money that she hasn't thought of.

[anonymous-user]

I don't live in England but as she wasn't a lodger (i.e. no live-in landlord that she was paying the rent to) shouldn't her deposit have been held in a protected scheme? Maybe there are different circumstances at play, but if the agent should have protected it but didn't she could be awarded up to three times the deposit as penalty. Pretty sure she shouldn't be asking the next tenant for her deposit back.

Try reading this link and speaking to Shelter, I'd be surprised if a letting agent was still pissing tenants around on their deposits like this these days.

https://m.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-flatsharing...

[Robotron70]

Transferring deposits is a nightmare, should have had a new tenancy agreement drawn up with the existing tenants plus the new tenant.

You need to call whoever the deposit is being held by.

[timberman]

Thanks for the help

daughter has decided to send yet another email to the letting agents to try and get this resolved,

based on the information from that Spareroom link ( thanks ScotHill ) it looks like they should have paid it back to her when she moved out and haven't provided a satisfactory reason for not doing so,

hopefully, if she makes her position clear and points out to them that she has information to back this up they'll refund the deposit,

If not it looks like we'll be taking them to the small claims court.

[anonymous-user]

timberman said:

Thanks for the help

daughter has decided to send yet another email to the letting agents to try and get this resolved,

based on the information from that Spareroom link ( thanks ScotHill ) it looks like they should have paid it back to her when she moved out and haven't provided a satisfactory reason for not doing so,

hopefully, if she makes her position clear and points out to them that she has information to back this up they'll refund the deposit,

If not it looks like we'll be taking them to the small claims court.

She should include a timescale for return of the deposit in the email, it sounds like they have just shoo'ed in a new tenant in the existing contract and just used your deposit to support this rather than doing it properly.

In the meantime gen up on letter before action, how to start a claim and get all the evidence together.

[ingenieur]

100% if she signed the contract with the lettings agent and paid the deposit to them then that's who she must deal with.

1. You contact the letting agent yourself on behalf of your daughter and use your angry voice. Up until now they probably think because they're only dealing with a lone female (by email only?) that they can muck her about. Have a set of bullet points written down and don't let them divert you off the matter with salesman spiel. Ask to speak to the manager if you feel like you're being mucked about.

2. If they don't end the call satisfactorily tell them you'll be taking legal advice. Make sure they know you mean it.

3. Send them a letter special delivery tracked setting out your intensions.

4. Then go to small claims court. Taking care to make sure whoever you want to claim against can actually pay you back or else it's a waste of your time and money trying. i.e. if they're a legitimate business with an office and all the rest then probably worth doing. Not so much if they're using a mobile phone and a gmail account.

I don't think you really should go for legal advice as the costs of doing that can outweigh the total you're aiming to claim back and it all becomes a bit costly and pointless.

[pavarotti1980]

Surely just ask the letting agents for the details of which protected deposit scheme the money is held in, then raise a dispute and let that process do all the work. If not in a scheme its compo time?

[mattyprice4004]

Hopefully it's not in a deposit scheme - then you can claim up to 3x the deposit back as compensation!
I'm a landlord, and the faff of protecting deposits with that threat of non-compliance is why I don't bother with a deposit anymore.

[timberman]

mattyprice4004 said:

Hopefully it's not in a deposit scheme - then you can claim up to 3x the deposit back as compensation!
I'm a landlord, and the faff of protecting deposits with that threat of non-compliance is why I don't bother with a deposit anymore.

her last landlord never took a deposit,

he just asked for a months rent in advance

[timberman]

gottans said:

timberman said:

Thanks for the help

daughter has decided to send yet another email to the letting agents to try and get this resolved,

based on the information from that Spareroom link ( thanks ScotHill ) it looks like they should have paid it back to her when she moved out and haven't provided a satisfactory reason for not doing so,

hopefully, if she makes her position clear and points out to them that she has information to back this up they'll refund the deposit,

If not it looks like we'll be taking them to the small claims court.

She should include a timescale for return of the deposit in the email, it sounds like they have just shoo'ed in a new tenant in the existing contract and just used your deposit to support this rather than doing it properly.

In the meantime gen up on letter before action, how to start a claim and get all the evidence together.

this is pretty much what I think has happened,

I have told her to give them some sort of deadline by which they should return the money or else.

I'm hoping a threat of action will be enough to make them pay up

makes me wonder if this sort of thing is a common occurrence.

[xx99xx]

timberman said:

her last landlord never took a deposit,

he just asked for a months rent in advance

Hang about, you said earlier it was a deposit?

Oh, the last landlord or this landlord?

As others have said, deposits should be easy to get back. Rent in advance which you end up not using, not so easy.

[timberman]

xx99xx said:

timberman said:

her last landlord never took a deposit,

he just asked for a months rent in advance

Hang about, you said earlier it was a deposit?

Oh, the last landlord or this landlord?

As others have said, deposits should be easy to get back. Rent in advance which you end up not using, not so easy.

Sorry,
should have made it clearer,

I was talking about the Landlord before the one in Manchester,

She's had about 7 different flats now in various different places,

up until the Manchester flat they were all to provide accommodation so she could attend universities,

she never had a problem till now,

I should also clear up that the deposit is indeed held in a secure scheme, but I don't currently know the details of who that's with,

thanks to all for your help,

everything I'm hearing so far sounds encouraging, so I'm hoping we can get the matter resolved without too much effort

[Percy Cushion]

timberman said:

I should also clear up that the deposit is indeed held in a secure scheme, but I don't currently know the details of who that's with.

Your daughter should have been informed by the Landlord who the deposit was held with, the Deposit Protection Scheme should also have contacted her when the deposit was received. If she doesn't have this information, she should ask the Letting Agent / Landlord to confirm where the deposit is held and to provide the reference number. Once she has this information, she should deal only with the Deposit Protection Scheme. Explain to them the circumstances (including not being informed, if that is the case), I think the Landlord has 30 days after moving out to advise the deposit protection scheme of any money to be deducted and to provide justification. This will then be sent to your daughter to either agree or to challenge.

[timberman]

Percy Cushion said:

timberman said:

I should also clear up that the deposit is indeed held in a secure scheme, but I don't currently know the details of who that's with.

Your daughter should have been informed by the Landlord who the deposit was held with, the Deposit Protection Scheme should also have contacted her when the deposit was received. If she doesn't have this information, she should ask the Letting Agent / Landlord to confirm where the deposit is held and to provide the reference number. Once she has this information, she should deal only with the Deposit Protection Scheme. Explain to them the circumstances (including not being informed, if that is the case), I think the Landlord has 30 days after moving out to advise the deposit protection scheme of any money to be deducted and to provide justification. This will then be sent to your daughter to either agree or to challenge.

okay, thanks Percy
I'll let her know

[superlightr]

timberman said:

Hopefully someone can point us in the right direction,

My daughter lived in a flat in Manchester with 2 others and then due to changing jobs had to relocate down to London,

she had to leave the flat at fairly short notice which meant there was a bit of a rush to find a replacement to take her place,

she never met her replacement who moved in the day after she moved out,

this was all done with the involvement of the letting agents, and after leaving she contacted the letting agents to try and get her deposit refunded.

the letting agents stated that the new tenant needed to refund the deposit directly to her and that they wouldn't allow any contract to be signed until this had happened,

my daughter tried to contact the new tenant on numerous occasions via email and included the letting agent in all correspondence but to no avail,

she concluded that the new tenant had no intention of paying the deposit but then found that the letting agents have allowed her to sign the contract anyway leaving my daughter out of pocket

my daughter then contacted the letting agents again to try and get her refund, or at least some assistance from them to get a resolution.

they basically said it's not their problem anymore and that she should carry on pursuing the new tenant to get her money back.

My daughter is now considering going through the small claims court to try and get her money back but isn't sure who she should be pursuing or if this is the best course of action,

she's tried to contact citizens advice but gotten nowhere so far and hasn't had any response from them via email.

so the questions are :-

1... If she decides to go through the small claims court who should she claim against,

the letting agents say she should be pursuing the new tenant,
but considering she signed the contract with them and paid the money to them, are they correct or just trying to dodge having to pay up,

2... is small claims court the best course of action, or is there a better way of retrieving the money that she hasn't thought of.

something doesnt add up here.

agent/landlord will allow a tenant to end her tenancy early without a charge?
Under the tenant fee act 2019 landlords can charge upto the full amount of the rent to the end of the fixed term tenancy - they may also charge less.

Does she have a fixed term tenancy?
Was this formally surrendered?
Did she pay a deposit?
What fee did the agents/landlords make for letting her end her contract early?
All of the above should be in writing/emails.

My bet is that the early release fee will be the amount of her deposit or a claim on the deposit for breach of contract.
What amount is the deposit?

Edited by superlightr on Monday 7th February 11:30

[timberman]

superlightr said:

timberman said:

Hopefully someone can point us in the right direction,

My daughter lived in a flat in Manchester with 2 others and then due to changing jobs had to relocate down to London,

she had to leave the flat at fairly short notice which meant there was a bit of a rush to find a replacement to take her place,

she never met her replacement who moved in the day after she moved out,

this was all done with the involvement of the letting agents, and after leaving she contacted the letting agents to try and get her deposit refunded.

the letting agents stated that the new tenant needed to refund the deposit directly to her and that they wouldn't allow any contract to be signed until this had happened,

my daughter tried to contact the new tenant on numerous occasions via email and included the letting agent in all correspondence but to no avail,

she concluded that the new tenant had no intention of paying the deposit but then found that the letting agents have allowed her to sign the contract anyway leaving my daughter out of pocket

my daughter then contacted the letting agents again to try and get her refund, or at least some assistance from them to get a resolution.

they basically said it's not their problem anymore and that she should carry on pursuing the new tenant to get her money back.

My daughter is now considering going through the small claims court to try and get her money back but isn't sure who she should be pursuing or if this is the best course of action,

she's tried to contact citizens advice but gotten nowhere so far and hasn't had any response from them via email.

so the questions are :-

1... If she decides to go through the small claims court who should she claim against,

the letting agents say she should be pursuing the new tenant,
but considering she signed the contract with them and paid the money to them, are they correct or just trying to dodge having to pay up,

2... is small claims court the best course of action, or is there a better way of retrieving the money that she hasn't thought of.

something doesnt add up here.

agent/landlord will allow a tenant to end her tenancy early without a charge?
Under the tenant fee act 2019 landlords can charge upto the full amount of the rent to the end of the fixed term tenancy - they may also charge less.

Does she have a fixed term tenancy?
Was this formally surrendered?
Did she pay a deposit?
What fee did the agents/landlords make for letting her end her contract early?
All of the above should be in writing/emails.

My bet is that the early release fee will be the amount of her deposit or a claim on the deposit for breach of contract.
What amount is the deposit?

Edited by superlightr on Monday 7th February 11:30

she did leave early, and paid I think an extra 6 weeks in rent to take her to the end of the contract period

there was no leaving charge other than having to pay the 6 weeks

the deposit was roughly £500

she is still struggling to get anywhere with this

the letting agent are saying the contract states,

that in a tenant swap situation the incoming tenant should pay their deposit to the outgoing tenant, or words to that effect,

she checked and it does so we're not sure where that leaves her,

also, she has approached the protected deposit scheme agent that is holding her deposit to try and raise a dispute, but was basically told that she couldn't raise a dispute by herself, it would have to be as a collective including the other tenants,
which considering she is the only one trying to get a deposit back isn't really an option.

[Mave]

timberman said:

she did leave early, and paid I think an extra 6 weeks in rent to take her to the end of the contract period

there was no leaving charge other than having to pay the 6 weeks

the deposit was roughly £500

she is still struggling to get anywhere with this

the letting agent are saying the contract states,

that in a tenant swap situation the incoming tenant should pay their deposit to the outgoing tenant, or words to that effect,

she checked and it does so we're not sure where that leaves her,

also, she has approached the protected deposit scheme agent that is holding her deposit to try and raise a dispute, but was basically told that she couldn't raise a dispute by herself, it would have to be as a collective including the other tenants,
which considering she is the only one trying to get a deposit back isn't really an option.

If she paid to the end of her contract, I don't see how this is a tenant swap. You didn't swap tenants in the middle of your contract did you? That's my understanding of a tenant swap. One where the old tenant and new tenant have contracts drawn up / a mended simultaneously due to changes mid contract. Your daughter's scenario is the landlord simply finding a new tenant to have a new contract with after your daughter's contract has ended.
If the landlord hadn't found a back to back replacement, who do they think your daughter should be getting her deposit from?

Edited by Mave on Monday 7th February 16:48

[anonymous-user]

timberman said:

also, she has approached the protected deposit scheme agent that is holding her deposit to try and raise a dispute, but was basically told that she couldn't raise a dispute by herself, it would have to be as a collective including the other tenants,
which considering she is the only one trying to get a deposit back isn't really an option.

This is all getting a bit confused - if the deposit scheme are saying that all tenants would have to raise a dispute together it sounds like either:

• your daughter didn't independently sign an individual contract for a room, but the group signed a single contract as a group for the house as a whole. In which case if she was leaving before the end of the contract she should have the option of either paying the outstanding rent owed and it's done and dusted, or finding a replacement tenant to pick up her rent for the remainder of the contract. It sounds like the agent are trying to do both, which isn't really on. Or;

• your daughter did sign an individual contract for a room, but the agent protected all the deposits together, which they shouldn't have done.

It might help if you could upload the contract with any personal/agent details removed to see exactly what she signed.

[timberman]

Mave said:

timberman said:

she did leave early, and paid I think an extra 6 weeks in rent to take her to the end of the contract period

there was no leaving charge other than having to pay the 6 weeks

the deposit was roughly £500

she is still struggling to get anywhere with this

the letting agent are saying the contract states,

that in a tenant swap situation the incoming tenant should pay their deposit to the outgoing tenant, or words to that effect,

she checked and it does so we're not sure where that leaves her,

also, she has approached the protected deposit scheme agent that is holding her deposit to try and raise a dispute, but was basically told that she couldn't raise a dispute by herself, it would have to be as a collective including the other tenants,
which considering she is the only one trying to get a deposit back isn't really an option.

If she paid to the end of her contract, I don't see how this is a tenant swap. You didn't swap tenants in the middle of your contract did you? That's my understanding of a tenant swap. One where the old tenant and new tenant have contracts drawn up / a mended simultaneously due to changes mid contract. Your daughter's scenario is the landlord simply finding a new tenant to have a new contract with after your daughter's contract has ended.
If the landlord hadn't found a back to back replacement, who do they think your daughter should be getting her deposit from?

Edited by Mave on Monday 7th February 16:48

I'm not sure tbh,

she was only in the flat for approx 6 months, and I think there was some sort of agreement set up for the 1st 6 month period with an option to leave at that point if desired.

I have no experience of renting so haven't got a clue how things work or what's normal

the flat was in a brand new building which was still being finished when they moved in, including parts of their flat, so I don't know if that had an effect on their contract or whether that's typical in rental agreements,

afaik, the remaining tenants didn't start a new contract and the new tenant replacing my daughter just took over her place

[timberman]

ScotHill said:

timberman said:

also, she has approached the protected deposit scheme agent that is holding her deposit to try and raise a dispute, but was basically told that she couldn't raise a dispute by herself, it would have to be as a collective including the other tenants,
which considering she is the only one trying to get a deposit back isn't really an option.

This is all getting a bit confused - if the deposit scheme are saying that all tenants would have to raise a dispute together it sounds like either:

• your daughter didn't independently sign an individual contract for a room, but the group signed a single contract as a group for the house as a whole. In which case if she was leaving before the end of the contract she should have the option of either paying the outstanding rent owed and it's done and dusted, or finding a replacement tenant to pick up her rent for the remainder of the contract. It sounds like the agent are trying to do both, which isn't really on. Or;

• your daughter did sign an individual contract for a room, but the agent protected all the deposits together, which they shouldn't have done.

It might help if you could upload the contract with any personal/agent details removed to see exactly what she signed.

I haven't seen the contract so I couldn't say for certain what the wording is,

the issue with trying to raise a dispute on the deposit arose when she tried to fill in a form, that's where she encountered the wording which stated that any dispute needed to be raised as a group

I know she had 2 scheme options when trying to go through this process ( custodial and insured ) and apparently she in in the insured scheme, don't know if this makes a difference.