Should I feel guilty about keeping something I found?

[Largechris]

It's been bothering me for a few years tbh.

I found a nice bit of kit lying on the ground outdoors at a sports club venue. Value £350. Quite a large venue open to the public but almost certainly it belonged to and was dropped by one of the members.

I did NOT want to hand it straight in to the desk of the club because I have seen several reports of what can happen to lost property (in particular there ended up being a police sting operation at a London Underground station lost property office, several staff arrests).

Also the club location was a bit remote, not in town, so I couldn't really see which police station might be responsible and being really honest couldn't be bothered finding out, it seemed unlikely a club member would have rung round the police stations for it.

Instead I reported it properly to the club management, twice, saying "if a member can describe what it was properly (brand, model etc) then of course I will arrange to send it to them". No specific reply or commitment from the club to find the owner (only would have taken a generic email out to their members).

I, er, ended up keeping it. Was this reasonable? Can I be forgiven?

[J8 SVG]

Largechris said:

Was this reasonable? Can I be forgiven?

They're already forgotten about it and are enjoying their £500 replacement item that they bought instead.

[mikeiow]

Largechris said:

It's been bothering me for a few years tbh.

I found a nice bit of kit lying on the ground outdoors at a sports club venue. Value £350. Quite a large venue open to the public but almost certainly it belonged to and was dropped by one of the members.

I did NOT want to hand it straight in to the desk of the club because I have seen several reports of what can happen to lost property (in particular there ended up being a police sting operation at a London Underground station lost property office, several staff arrests).

Also the club location was a bit remote, not in town, so I couldn't really see which police station might be responsible and being really honest couldn't be bothered finding out, it seemed unlikely a club member would have rung round the police stations for it.

Instead I reported it properly to the club management, twice, saying "if a member can describe what it was properly (brand, model etc) then of course I will arrange to send it to them". No specific reply or commitment from the club to find the owner (only would have taken a generic email out to their members).

I, er, ended up keeping it. Was this reasonable? Can I be forgiven?

I would perhaps have also posted a page on a wall near the ground to inform anyone visiting the venue of said discovery.

After a month or so, I'd perhaps take it down and keep it - you can only try so hard!

Mind you, when I was very little (perhaps around 10), I found a wallet with a small amount of money in it (think under £50 in todays value!).
My nan & I took it to a Police Station - they said if it wasn't claimed after 6 months, it would be mine.
A bit over 60 months later, she contacted the Police - they had thrown the wallet away and put the money in a Police charity fund.
I've been suspicious of Police ever since

Edited by mikeiow on Monday 28th February 15:07

[Largechris]

J8 SVG said:

Largechris said:

Was this reasonable? Can I be forgiven?

They're already forgotten about it and are enjoying their £500 replacement item that they bought instead.

That's what I keep telling myself certainly. You're not just saying that to be nice.....

[Muzzer79]

To be absolutely honest, your post translates to me as:

"I did NOT want to hand it straight in to the desk of the club because I have seen several reports of what can happen to lost property because I fancied it for myself".

"Also the club location was a bit remote, not in town, so I couldn't really see which police station might be responsible and being really honest couldn't be bothered finding out, it seemed unlikely a club member would have rung round the police stations for it. because I fancied it for myself

"Instead, in a token effort to ease my conscience, I reported it properly to the club management, twice, saying "if a member can describe what it was properly (brand, model etc) then of course I will arrange to send it to them". "

"I, er, ended up keeping it. Was this reasonable? Can I be forgiven? Which was convenient"

[Largechris]

mikeiow said:

Largechris said:

It's been bothering me for a few years tbh.

I found a nice bit of kit lying on the ground outdoors at a sports club venue. Value £350. Quite a large venue open to the public but almost certainly it belonged to and was dropped by one of the members.

I did NOT want to hand it straight in to the desk of the club because I have seen several reports of what can happen to lost property (in particular there ended up being a police sting operation at a London Underground station lost property office, several staff arrests).

Also the club location was a bit remote, not in town, so I couldn't really see which police station might be responsible and being really honest couldn't be bothered finding out, it seemed unlikely a club member would have rung round the police stations for it.

Instead I reported it properly to the club management, twice, saying "if a member can describe what it was properly (brand, model etc) then of course I will arrange to send it to them". No specific reply or commitment from the club to find the owner (only would have taken a generic email out to their members).

I, er, ended up keeping it. Was this reasonable? Can I be forgiven?

I would perhaps have also posted a page on a wall near the ground to inform anyone visiting the venue of said discovery.

After a month or so, I'd perhaps take it down and keep it - you can only try so hard!

Yes I agree, I'm not making excuses, I did check at the time and there was indeed a club noticeboard BUT

These sort of clubs can get ridiculously snooty about their notice boards, not kidding, it looked very much like it was "official management news only" nothing at all posted by anyone else. And I was not going to be barked at by a stuffed shirt for trying to do the right thing.

Good point though.

Edited by Largechris on Monday 28th February 15:10

[Largechris]

Muzzer79 said:

To be absolutely honest, your post translates to me as:

"I did NOT want to hand it straight in to the desk of the club because I have seen several reports of what can happen to lost property because I fancied it for myself".

"Also the club location was a bit remote, not in town, so I couldn't really see which police station might be responsible and being really honest couldn't be bothered finding out, it seemed unlikely a club member would have rung round the police stations for it. because I fancied it for myself

"Instead, in a token effort to ease my conscience, I reported it properly to the club management, twice, saying "if a member can describe what it was properly (brand, model etc) then of course I will arrange to send it to them". "

"I, er, ended up keeping it. Was this reasonable? Can I be forgiven? Which was convenient"

I lolled

Yes, I'm sure to those of a cynical bent, or possibly even to the n'er do wells, my post might come across in that way.

[Riley Blue]

If it's been bothering you for several years you have your answer, don't you?

[Largechris]

Riley Blue said:

If it's been bothering you for several years you have your answer, don't you?

Yes, I guess so. [Sad face]

[mickyh7]

Dress it up any way you want,but...
It is 'Theft by Finding'.
You should have done the right thing straight away.
When you hand something in, you can ask for a receipt.
That will stop it disappearing!

[bigandclever]

I think it's admirable you've kept the item safe from those thieving bds at TfL the club for all these years

[Bigends]

Reasonable attempts made to trace the owner?

[Stick Legs]

My friends & I found a ladies purse in the park when I was about 14.
We looked in and there was about £100 in cash.

We discussed keeping it but decided it was enough money to be missed so handed it in at the Police station.

After we left one of my more enterprising friends suggested we should have slipped a Tenner out for some sweets for ourselves as that’s 10%!


About the same age I screwed up the decals on a model aeroplane I was building. I went back to the shop & slipped another set out of a kit on the shelf.

Having got home I felt really guilty.

It was more nerve racking putting the decals back than it was nicking them!

I haven’t nicked anything since and enjoy living with a clear conscience.

[Durzel]

You could have easily handed it in to the club or the Police. Speculating that it might end up "lost" again is neither here nor there really, and is basically just a justification you've used to feel better about it.

You'd be none the wiser after you had handed it over in terms of what happened to it afterwards - it could (probably would've) been reunited with the owner, as that would naturally have been the place they would have asked about it first. But rather than do that and deprive yourself of something you kinda wanted to keep you instead conjured up a convenient narrative where the club might be dodgy, and you're actually doing the owner (or the world?) a favour somehow by actually keeping it.

Flipping your "what if" conscience-soothing on its head, what if the owner was retracing their steps and had turned up minutes after you'd taken their item home? They'd still have it now. Even if they didn't - if it was gone the next time you were there you'd still be none the wiser as to whether they, or someone else, got it.

So yeah, you should feel guilty, because you stole something that didn't belong to you. Everything you've said is basically just you justifying it to yourself.

[Bigends]

Durzel said:

You could have easily handed it in to the club or the Police. Speculating that it might end up "lost" again is neither here nor there really, and is basically just a justification you've used to feel better about it.

You'd be none the wiser after you had handed it over in terms of what happened to it afterwards - it could (probably would've) been reunited with the owner, as that would naturally have been the placed they would have asked about it first. But, because you conjured up a convenient narrative where the club might be dodgy, you're actually doing the owner (or the world?) a favour somehow by actually keeping it.

Flipping your "what if" conscience-soothing on its head, what if the owner was retracing their steps and had turned up minutes after you'd taken their item home? They'd still have it now. Even if they didn't - if it was gone the next time you were there you'd still be none the wiser as to whether they, or someone else, got it.

So yeah, you should feel guilty, because you stole something that didn't belong to you. Everything you've said is basically just you justifying it to yourself.

Police havent accepted found items for some time now - unless illegal for the finder to possess them - drugs, weapons etc

[Durzel]

Bigends said:

Police havent accepted found items for some time now - unless illegal for the finder to possess them - drugs, weapons etc

Fair enough, but a moral individual would've tried to hand it in only to find that out when they got there. At the very minimum it should have been handed in to the club.

I wouldn't bend over backwards returning a lost item somewhere, but since this item was "almost certainly" from a member of the club I'd take it in if I happened to be there.

[Largechris]

Durzel said:

You could have easily handed it in to the club or the Police. Speculating that it might end up "lost" again is neither here nor there really, and is basically just a justification you've used to feel better about it.

You'd be none the wiser after you had handed it over in terms of what happened to it afterwards - it could (probably would've) been reunited with the owner, as that would naturally have been the place they would have asked about it first. But rather than do that and deprive yourself of something you kinda wanted to keep you instead conjured up a convenient narrative where the club might be dodgy, and you're actually doing the owner (or the world?) a favour somehow by actually keeping it.

Flipping your "what if" conscience-soothing on its head, what if the owner was retracing their steps and had turned up minutes after you'd taken their item home? They'd still have it now. Even if they didn't - if it was gone the next time you were there you'd still be none the wiser as to whether they, or someone else, got it.

So yeah, you should feel guilty, because you stole something that didn't belong to you. Everything you've said is basically just you justifying it to yourself.

Ok, I hang my head a little, except to pick a couple of points -

(The police not accepting lost property is interesting, I do remember that now, it was taking up too much of their time)

At the time of finding it, I did obviously look around over quite a distance for anyone who might conceivably have dropped it, place was deserted.

In terms of not just handing it in - if it was the local church or old people's home I would. The nature of this club, and who I would be handing it to, I genuinely did not believe it would get back to the owner. Honest.

And getting a receipt? Again, it's something I pondered at the time, but I couldn't see how that would help? If I ring in next week and say has someone collected it, yes, who, can't share that information, private club, how does having a receipt help?

Is not the club the bigger villain for not lifting a finger to help?

Edited by Largechris on Monday 28th February 15:53

[vonhosen]

You can retain property found in your possession, without handing in to Police (certain exceptions apply eg firearms etc), as long as you take reasonable steps to find the owner & it will not be theft by finding.
I'd have informed the Police of the finding & that I was retaining it until an owner came forward & also inform the club.
You should of course not dispose of it & be ready to return it to the owner should they come forward.
If it's been a few years it's certainly reasonable to treat it as your own.

[Durzel]

Largechris said:

Ok, I hang my head a little, except to pick a couple of points -

(The police not accepting lost property is interesting, I do remember that now, it was taking up too much of their time)

At the time of finding it, I did obviously look around over quite a distance for anyone who might conceivably have dropped it, place was deserted.

In terms of not just handing it in - if it was the local church or old people's home I would. The nature of this club, and who I would be handing it to, I genuinely did not believe it would get back to the owner. Honest.

And getting a receipt? Again, it's something I pondered at the time, but I couldn't see how that would help? If I ring in next week and say has someone collected it, yes, who, can't share that information, private club, how does having a receipt help?

Is not the club the bigger villain for not lifting a finger to help?

Edited by Largechris on Monday 28th February 15:53

Well... it's good you did something, I guess, but you basically told the club that they'd have to jump through hoops in order for you to hand something you'd found over. I'm not sure it's practical for them to email their entire client database, assuming all of their clients have registered emails, or whether it would be prudent for them to do so in such a clandesdine way - i.e. "if one of you can email back and tell us what brand/model this was then you might get it back".

Then again - being the cynical person I am - I think you probably realised that it would be more trouble for them than it was worth, and that the likelihood would be that they'd be too ineffectual at following it up.

And no - the club isn't a villain in this scenario. It's not your place to dictate the criteria for handing back something that doesn't belong to you, particularly if - in your own words - this property almost certainly belonged to one of their members so they were best placed to reunite it with them.

[DanL]

To paraphrase - you thought someone at the club would steal it, so you stole it yourself?