How to correctly read street signage?
Discussion
Right, this sign is at the top of a high street fairly local to me. There have been complaints about people cycling down there when it’s supposed to be pedestrianised.
Anyway, it got me thinking, if you’re going down the street to load during the exemption times? Does the 20 zone not apply?
How does one (according to the letter of the law) interpret this sign?
Before anyone starts, I’m not going to try driving down there at 8pm at 30! I’m just intrigued to know.
Anyway, it got me thinking, if you’re going down the street to load during the exemption times? Does the 20 zone not apply?
How does one (according to the letter of the law) interpret this sign?
Before anyone starts, I’m not going to try driving down there at 8pm at 30! I’m just intrigued to know.
up, I was pleasantly surprised that there was a later sign to prohibit pedestrians [pushing bicycles]
matrignano said:
That sign doesn't explicitly ban lorries from driving in at any time, does it?
Only cars, motorbikes and bikes?
It does, it's no motor vehicles. Rather than stick every type of banned vehicle on the sign that's anything with an engine.Only cars, motorbikes and bikes?
For instance, try reading this sign while you're flying down the alpine descent on a bicycle or moped, I get the feeling it could be quite difficult... Switzerland
Ed/L152 said:
Are deliveries by bike prohibited at any time?
Yes - another argument for switching to a "no vehicles except loading" and ditch the cycling restriction sign. Although potentially not allowed by the TRO.Surely the correct (and simpler) sign would be the red circle (no vehicles) with the legend below: "Except for loading between
4pm-midnight
Midnight-10am"
The current one means you couldn't deliver something by bicycle at 5pm but you could by motorbike!
It's also a good argument for the 24hr clock really, that sign looks a mess -
"Except for loading between 1600-1000" would be much clearer
4pm-midnight
Midnight-10am"
The current one means you couldn't deliver something by bicycle at 5pm but you could by motorbike!
It's also a good argument for the 24hr clock really, that sign looks a mess -
"Except for loading between 1600-1000" would be much clearer
Silverage said:
What a nightmare sign though. How many restrictions are on there to take in at a glance? 5?
Not to mention the insanity of banning bicycles at all times yet allowing motorvehicles for access...I generally disapprove of banning bicycles from pedestrianised areas*
But it is even more insane that we allow motor vehicles while banning bikes; It adds even more complexity to an already overloaded sign and technically limits access to the most dangerous vehicles... (see several restaurants I have seen in pedestrianised areas using deliveroo/just eat/{insert alternate delivery service} where bicycles make a lot of sense, being both quicker and presenting less risk than alternatives...).
IMHO I don't think we should allow the combination of "Pedestrianised area" text and No motor vehicles signage (should be no vehicles) because a lot of people will complain about bicycles in 'Pedestrianised areas' even where they are allowed (or it should generally be consistent) usually on spurious reasons (same as a lot of barriers to 'slow down' cyclists - they don't actually change incident stats...).
- dutch research shows that:
2. You can't (sanely) allocate enough resources to enforce
3. The majority of riders are well behaved for safety when legal (because they are the ones that get hurt) and the presence of respectful riders tends to discorage idiots (so accident rates can actually go UP despite significantly fewer cyclists)
4. Mostly issues are far better resolved by providing usable alternative routes (and facilities, e.g. skate parks).
KungFuPanda said:
Could you not take a common sense approach and extrapolate from the sign that when you’re driving along to load between those permitted times, the speed limit is 20mph?
Of course. I'm suggesting for one minute that anyone (myself included would or should). What I'm interested in is what defines which aspects of the sign the time restriction applies to. This sign has several features that apparently should be legally binding. Surely there should be some criteria about how the exemptions to certain parts of it should be displayed. Its not like the time restrictions for loading are in the same 'frame' as the pedestrian zone sign.Is there some regulation somewhere that specifies that a time exemption only applies to the restriction indicated immediately above it, for example?
If I was being pedantic, there are retailers on that street which use deliveroo and uber eats. Are their delivery riders allowed to ride down the street after 4pm?
Just returned from a trip to Leeds City Centre. Since my last visit there seems to be new signs everywhere, No rights turns, no entry at certain times except for buses, taxis, etc. Buses only. For a newbie the amount of information you are expected to read, analyse, comprehend and obey is a nightmare. I fear our city centres are becoming a “no go” for private cars. The other thing I noticed was that there are relatively few “disabled” bays, but plenty of “loading only” spaces. I say that as my wife has a Blue Badge, and I noticed that many drivers appear to ignore the rules and take a chance of parking in these bays with no badge displayed. That’s one of my pet hates.
Rant over.
Rant over.
Plus8 said:
Just returned from a trip to Leeds City Centre. Since my last visit there seems to be new signs everywhere, No rights turns, no entry at certain times except for buses, taxis, etc. Buses only. For a newbie the amount of information you are expected to read, analyse, comprehend and obey is a nightmare. I fear our city centres are becoming a “no go” for private cars. The other thing I noticed was that there are relatively few “disabled” bays, but plenty of “loading only” spaces. I say that as my wife has a Blue Badge, and I noticed that many drivers appear to ignore the rules and take a chance of parking in these bays with no badge displayed. That’s one of my pet hates.
Rant over.
Ah, Leeds. I had a bit of a near miss with their signage trying to get out of the City Centre on my bike.Rant over.
I'd got rather lost getting out of the centre, in the wrong direction. Eventually got myself to the Armley Gyratory and onto the A58.
Fortunately, I was headed for the A65 and away from the City Centre. Because I misread this sign.
Had I been heading towards the centre, I'd have followed the nice green/white panel for the City Centre, thinking that means there's an exit for those local destinations, then it becomes a motorway for through traffic. But no, I'd be pedalling along the A58(M).
Solocle said:
Ah, Leeds. I had a bit of a near miss with their signage trying to get out of the City Centre on my bike.
I'd got rather lost getting out of the centre, in the wrong direction. Eventually got myself to the Armley Gyratory and onto the A58.
Fortunately, I was headed for the A65 and away from the City Centre. Because I misread this sign.
Had I been heading towards the centre, I'd have followed the nice green/white panel for the City Centre, thinking that means there's an exit for those local destinations, then it becomes a motorway for through traffic. But no, I'd be pedalling along the A58(M).
No, your next slip left is the Town Hall, the slip after is Leeds University. I'd got rather lost getting out of the centre, in the wrong direction. Eventually got myself to the Armley Gyratory and onto the A58.
Fortunately, I was headed for the A65 and away from the City Centre. Because I misread this sign.
Had I been heading towards the centre, I'd have followed the nice green/white panel for the City Centre, thinking that means there's an exit for those local destinations, then it becomes a motorway for through traffic. But no, I'd be pedalling along the A58(M).
No Motorways only, as the signage says.
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