Curious about police radar guns
Discussion
A couple of weeks ago I was on the M180 near S
horpe on a bright Sunday morning. The motorway had a speed restriction of 40 mph, with the outside Lane being coned off with signs stating “lane closed for overnight work”.
For 10 miles or so the traffic adhered to the 40mph, but when the restrictions ended and when the limit reverted to 70, many cars accelerated away, me included. I set my cruise control to 79mph and continued my journey. On passing under a bridge I noticed a marked police car just off the hard shoulder and, like most people I expect, immediately braked slightly, disengaging the cruise control.
Looking in my mirrors, I noticed the police car pull onto the carriageway, blue lights flashing and I remarked to my wife that he must be after someone! Unfortunately, that someone was me and he pulled up behind me, flashing his lights and indicating left. I pulled up on the hard shoulder and awaited my fate. The officer came up on the passenger side, I dropped the window and he made a comment like, “the reason I’ve stopped you is for your excessive speed” and he turned the hand held device in my direction and it showed a digital read out of 95.
I was genuinely shocked and said something to the effect that I was very surprised etc. I didn’t say, “that’s ridiculous because I had set my cruise control at 79”, which would be, in effect, admitting that I was speeding. Now I do know that the cruise control on my car stays engaged even if you go above the set speed and only disengages when you brake. However, I’m adamant that my foot was not on the accelerator pedal.
He asked me to join him in his car, where he proceeded to check all my details, including license, insurance, All info was correct and in order and it was confirmed I had zero points on my license. He also breathalysed me as a matter of routine, again no issues.
He then cautioned me, and again I said I was very surprised at the speed recorded. He said that I would get a NIP in the post, but had the speed been 96 or above, it would definitely end in a court appearance.
Speaking to a few friends later, the general consensus was that I must have been speeding, these guns are very accurate etc. One told me he ended up in court for doing 64 in a 40, got 4 points and £2000 fine based on his income.
A couple of weeks later, I did receive a NIP which included the option of a FPN of 3 points and £100 fine. Under the circumstances I decided that was the best option, so that’s what I did.
Sorry this is a long post but my question is, has anyone ever challenged a speed gun reading and if so, how did they go about it, how long did it take and what was the outcome?
I know in my case, I’ve bitten the bullet and sucked it up but I would be interested to hear any experiences. Thanks for reading.
horpe on a bright Sunday morning. The motorway had a speed restriction of 40 mph, with the outside Lane being coned off with signs stating “lane closed for overnight work”. For 10 miles or so the traffic adhered to the 40mph, but when the restrictions ended and when the limit reverted to 70, many cars accelerated away, me included. I set my cruise control to 79mph and continued my journey. On passing under a bridge I noticed a marked police car just off the hard shoulder and, like most people I expect, immediately braked slightly, disengaging the cruise control.
Looking in my mirrors, I noticed the police car pull onto the carriageway, blue lights flashing and I remarked to my wife that he must be after someone! Unfortunately, that someone was me and he pulled up behind me, flashing his lights and indicating left. I pulled up on the hard shoulder and awaited my fate. The officer came up on the passenger side, I dropped the window and he made a comment like, “the reason I’ve stopped you is for your excessive speed” and he turned the hand held device in my direction and it showed a digital read out of 95.
I was genuinely shocked and said something to the effect that I was very surprised etc. I didn’t say, “that’s ridiculous because I had set my cruise control at 79”, which would be, in effect, admitting that I was speeding. Now I do know that the cruise control on my car stays engaged even if you go above the set speed and only disengages when you brake. However, I’m adamant that my foot was not on the accelerator pedal.
He asked me to join him in his car, where he proceeded to check all my details, including license, insurance, All info was correct and in order and it was confirmed I had zero points on my license. He also breathalysed me as a matter of routine, again no issues.
He then cautioned me, and again I said I was very surprised at the speed recorded. He said that I would get a NIP in the post, but had the speed been 96 or above, it would definitely end in a court appearance.
Speaking to a few friends later, the general consensus was that I must have been speeding, these guns are very accurate etc. One told me he ended up in court for doing 64 in a 40, got 4 points and £2000 fine based on his income.
A couple of weeks later, I did receive a NIP which included the option of a FPN of 3 points and £100 fine. Under the circumstances I decided that was the best option, so that’s what I did.
Sorry this is a long post but my question is, has anyone ever challenged a speed gun reading and if so, how did they go about it, how long did it take and what was the outcome?
I know in my case, I’ve bitten the bullet and sucked it up but I would be interested to hear any experiences. Thanks for reading.
Radar guns should be very accurate.
But how would the OP how if the speed recorded was while the gun was pointed at him?
I suspect what happened was, the cop got the figure on the gun from pointing it at another vehicle, then for some reason decided to nick the OP.
That reason may have been because the cruise control use made the OP look like a certain sort of driver that the cop doesn't like?
But how would the OP how if the speed recorded was while the gun was pointed at him?
I suspect what happened was, the cop got the figure on the gun from pointing it at another vehicle, then for some reason decided to nick the OP.
That reason may have been because the cruise control use made the OP look like a certain sort of driver that the cop doesn't like?
I don’t understand the comment re not using guns, the handheld device he showed me looked very like a “gun” to me. What do they use that they can then show the driver a device with a digital readout on?
It’s interesting regarding the comment about the vehicle, I drive a black Mercedes with black alloys (I know, not my choice, I didn’t buy new) and privacy glass, so some may interpret that as “chavvy” or “drug dealer”! I don’t consider myself either of these!
It’s interesting regarding the comment about the vehicle, I drive a black Mercedes with black alloys (I know, not my choice, I didn’t buy new) and privacy glass, so some may interpret that as “chavvy” or “drug dealer”! I don’t consider myself either of these!
Plus8 said:
I don’t understand the comment re not using guns, the handheld device he showed me looked very like a “gun” to me. What do they use that they can then show the driver a device with a digital readout on?
It’s interesting regarding the comment about the vehicle, I drive a black Mercedes with black alloys (I know, not my choice, I didn’t buy new) and privacy glass, so some may interpret that as “chavvy” or “drug dealer”! I don’t consider myself either of these!
Laser, not radar. Details matter.It’s interesting regarding the comment about the vehicle, I drive a black Mercedes with black alloys (I know, not my choice, I didn’t buy new) and privacy glass, so some may interpret that as “chavvy” or “drug dealer”! I don’t consider myself either of these!
edthefed said:
Provided they are calibrated correctly and used within the guidelines laser guns are extremely accurate
The speed limit is 70 you set the cruise control for 79 - you were speeding !
As I understand it, it's quite easy to get errors on laser guns, especially if they are not tripod mounted or fixed in some way.The speed limit is 70 you set the cruise control for 79 - you were speeding !
Just to try and clarify the 79 setting. As I understand it, there was generally . accepted that 10 per cent plus 2 was within the “tolerances” or guidelines and has been said on a similar topic, speedometers tend to over read and perhaps the true speed was nearer 75. Yesterday, I was on the M6 in Cumbria and travelling at a reading of 70mph I was overtaken by, rough guess, 8 out of 10 cars. In my experience there is more risk travelling amongst coaches, lorries and slower vehicles at 65/70 than at 75/80 using the lanes sensibly.
Plus8 said:
Just to try and clarify the 79 setting. As I understand it, there was generally . accepted that 10 per cent plus 2 was within the “tolerances” or guidelines and has been said on a similar topic, .
OP "10% +2" is where prosecutions start. You need to be "10% +1" to be under the radar (as it were)"If the offence is not supported by photograph evidence, but has been recorded on a hand-held speed gun, you would expect to see proof of the speed recorded (this could be a photograph taken by the police officer of the camera display), a Calibration Certificate and a Training Certificate for the officer.
These are the bare minimum requirements, but if a case is challenged or progressed to Court, a detailed Statement would normally be served."
I thought the modern laser guns always took a picture.
A "real" laser reading of 94mph would probably be nearer 100 mph on the car's speedo. Nowhere near 79.
These are the bare minimum requirements, but if a case is challenged or progressed to Court, a detailed Statement would normally be served."
I thought the modern laser guns always took a picture.
A "real" laser reading of 94mph would probably be nearer 100 mph on the car's speedo. Nowhere near 79.
edthefed said:
The law states 70mph
There is guidance that prosecutions start at 10% plus 2, but it is GUIDANCE and not all forces adhere to it, nor is there any legal requirement to adhere to it.
As GUIDANCE it is not statute and you could be prosecuted at 71 in a 70
The 'tolerance' must also include an allowance for the indicated speed from the radar or whatever not being exact.There is guidance that prosecutions start at 10% plus 2, but it is GUIDANCE and not all forces adhere to it, nor is there any legal requirement to adhere to it.
As GUIDANCE it is not statute and you could be prosecuted at 71 in a 70
If your true speed was 76, reading off a gatso might indicate 79 and you'd be bang to rights.
People who race windsurfers are quite adept at getting high speed readings from a GPS, none of it is fool proof, or incapable of being gamed.
edthefed said:
Provided they are calibrated correctly and used within the guidelines laser guns are extremely accurate
The speed limit is 70 you set the cruise control for 79 - you were speeding !
That's not in dispute. The reported speed is. The speed limit is 70 you set the cruise control for 79 - you were speeding !
(I resisted the urge to say 'There's always one righteous t
t ')edthefed said:
The law states 70mph
There is guidance that prosecutions start at 10% plus 2, but it is GUIDANCE and not all forces adhere to it, nor is there any legal requirement to adhere to it.
As GUIDANCE it is not statute and you could be prosecuted at 71 in a 70
You are right, not all forces adhere to the 10 + 2 guidelines, some go to 10% + 3There is guidance that prosecutions start at 10% plus 2, but it is GUIDANCE and not all forces adhere to it, nor is there any legal requirement to adhere to it.
As GUIDANCE it is not statute and you could be prosecuted at 71 in a 70
You could be prosecuted at 71 but you won't, and it's guidelines not guidance, not actually the same meaning
It's an issue that's been around a while, but the justice system does seem happy to place a lot of weight on the officer's testimony, and treats the motorist as guilty unless they prove innocence (same as previous mobile phone law)
It's a given that the speeder is "never" going to be guilty of the speed they're shown, and the officer "always" carrying out their duty impecibally.
So, with that, and ignoring the red herrings and pedantry thrown out above, it would be interesting to see a case where a driver's recorded GPS speed didn't match the police's unimpeachable radar, sorry, laser gun recorded speed.
I suspect the police's calibration certificate would attract more weight from the magistrate than the £50 eBay device from China. But the court is still relying on testimony of the copper that they've used it correctly, and not switched it to another car (in cases with no photo)
Ultimately for the op, a conviction for your actual 79mph would yield you the exact same penalty as you got for a "suspect" 95, so all is well that ends well in your case luckily.
Which is fine (until it isn't)
It's a given that the speeder is "never" going to be guilty of the speed they're shown, and the officer "always" carrying out their duty impecibally.
So, with that, and ignoring the red herrings and pedantry thrown out above, it would be interesting to see a case where a driver's recorded GPS speed didn't match the police's unimpeachable radar, sorry, laser gun recorded speed.
I suspect the police's calibration certificate would attract more weight from the magistrate than the £50 eBay device from China. But the court is still relying on testimony of the copper that they've used it correctly, and not switched it to another car (in cases with no photo)
Ultimately for the op, a conviction for your actual 79mph would yield you the exact same penalty as you got for a "suspect" 95, so all is well that ends well in your case luckily.
Which is fine (until it isn't)
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