Confused by towing rules!

[jjg23]

Hey,
I have a mate who got his licence after 1997 and we need him to drive a Lander Rover Defender 2014 with gross weight 2505kg (rated to tow 3500kg braked) and he needs to tow a braked trailer loaded to around 2,800kg (including weight of the trailer).
Is he allowed to on a standard UK driving licence with no extra qualifications? I know they changed the rules last year, and the Government website so badly worded, i cannot work it out!!
Help appreciated.
Cheers

[Mammasaid]

It's not difficult

gov.uk said:

If you got your licence before 1 January 1997

You can usually drive a vehicle and trailer with a combined weight of up to 8,250kg MAM. View your driving licence information to check.

You’re also allowed to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kg MAM.

If you got your licence from 1 January 1997

You can tow a trailer that weighs up to 3,500kg MAM.

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car

[MethylatedSpirit]

Short answer: Yes, he needs the towing licence

Because the total MAM of the trailer + car would equal more than 3500kg

[geeks]

MethylatedSpirit said:

Short answer: Yes, he needs the towing licence

Because the total MAM of the trailer + car would equal more than 3500kg

Actually I think its not that simple, rules changed in December, pretty sure the only thing that matters now is the trailer, as long as its plated under 3500kg then I think its ok.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a...

gov.uk said:

What changed on 16 December 2021
If you passed your car driving test from 1 January 1997, you’re now allowed to tow trailers up to 3,500kg MAM.

[warninglight]

As long as he's got a GB licence (ie. not a NI one) then yes, he will now have the B+E entitlement.

If it's for hire or reward, you'll need to look at the laws around tachographs as it's over 3500kg combined.

Also, that's quite a bit of weight to just hitch on if your mate has never towed. I can't recommend enough spending a few hours with someone competent beforehand. There's plenty can go wrong even before you get them hitched up, if you're new to it all. I did the training and the test a few years ago.

[AyBee]

MethylatedSpirit said:

Short answer: Yes, he needs the towing licence

Because the total MAM of the trailer + car would equal more than 3500kg

Old rules!

[MethylatedSpirit]

geeks said:

MethylatedSpirit said:

Short answer: Yes, he needs the towing licence

Because the total MAM of the trailer + car would equal more than 3500kg

Actually I think its not that simple, rules changed in December, pretty sure the only thing that matters now is the trailer, as long as its plated under 3500kg then I think its ok.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a...

I didn't realise they'd changed in December.

So my trailer test 4 years ago seems worthless now

[geeks]

MethylatedSpirit said:

geeks said:

MethylatedSpirit said:

Short answer: Yes, he needs the towing licence

Because the total MAM of the trailer + car would equal more than 3500kg

Actually I think its not that simple, rules changed in December, pretty sure the only thing that matters now is the trailer, as long as its plated under 3500kg then I think its ok.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a...

I didn't realise they'd changed in December.

So my trailer test 4 years ago seems worthless now

Afraid so, though one assumes you benefitted from it prior to December though?

I sat on the fence over doing mine but had always found a way to tow what I needed when I needed to with a clever combo of tow cars and trailers.... I was too the letter of the limit but never over and when over I had L-Plates and someone with a B+E in with me to keep it legal like

[SkodaIan]

MethylatedSpirit said:

Short answer: Yes, he needs the towing licence

Because the total MAM of the trailer + car would equal more than 3500kg

But he will now have the towing licence after the changes made at the end of last year.

I have a post 1997 licence and renewed the photo card last month. The new one has come back with category BE added on 16th December 2021 despite me never having done the trailer test.
Category BE for after Jan 2013 is a trailer with a MAM of up to 3500kg within the towing limits of the vehicle.
So a Land Rover with a trailer rated MAM at 3500kg or below will be ok.
The only thing to check is that the trailer MAM of 3500kg or less is on a plate on the trailer - that's what matters in terms of licence requirements, not what's loaded onto it (other than not exceeding the MAM obviously!!)

[MethylatedSpirit]

geeks said:

MethylatedSpirit said:

geeks said:

MethylatedSpirit said:

Short answer: Yes, he needs the towing licence

Because the total MAM of the trailer + car would equal more than 3500kg

Actually I think its not that simple, rules changed in December, pretty sure the only thing that matters now is the trailer, as long as its plated under 3500kg then I think its ok.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a...

I didn't realise they'd changed in December.

So my trailer test 4 years ago seems worthless now

Afraid so, though one assumes you benefitted from it prior to December though?

I sat on the fence over doing mine but had always found a way to tow what I needed when I needed to with a clever combo of tow cars and trailers.... I was too the letter of the limit but never over and when over I had L-Plates and someone with a B+E in with me to keep it legal like

I did benefit from doing the test. Other half done her towing test later than me and hadn't utilised it. I think my mate done it and used it once. Best keep that one quiet.

[jjg23]

Thanks for all the help guys! I'm happy to hear we're in the clear.
We're doing some practice and test tows ahead of the trip.
Cheers all
J

[geeks]

MethylatedSpirit said:

geeks said:

MethylatedSpirit said:

geeks said:

MethylatedSpirit said:

Short answer: Yes, he needs the towing licence

Because the total MAM of the trailer + car would equal more than 3500kg

Actually I think its not that simple, rules changed in December, pretty sure the only thing that matters now is the trailer, as long as its plated under 3500kg then I think its ok.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a...

I didn't realise they'd changed in December.

So my trailer test 4 years ago seems worthless now

Afraid so, though one assumes you benefitted from it prior to December though?

I sat on the fence over doing mine but had always found a way to tow what I needed when I needed to with a clever combo of tow cars and trailers.... I was too the letter of the limit but never over and when over I had L-Plates and someone with a B+E in with me to keep it legal like

I did benefit from doing the test. Other half done her towing test later than me and hadn't utilised it. I think my mate done it and used it once. Best keep that one quiet.

The training wont have been wasted though, I am still of the opinion you should at least take some basic training on it before heading out solo. I didn't get official training but was taken out by a friend with extensive training who drives for a living so felt much more confident before going solo as it were.

[bigothunter]

geeks said:

The training wont have been wasted though, I am still of the opinion you should at least take some basic training on it before heading out solo. I didn't get official training but was taken out by a friend with extensive training who drives for a living so felt much more confident before going solo as it were.

Apparently training does/did not cover recovery action when a heavy trailer starts to snake. That's the alarming aspect of towing

Seems like a fundamental omission...

[R0G]

All those with B on licence issued from DVLA now have BE

Legal example

Vehicle max tow limit 2200

Trailer plated MAM 3500
Trailer empty 1000
Max load for trailer 1200

[normalbloke]

bigothunter said:

geeks said:

The training wont have been wasted though, I am still of the opinion you should at least take some basic training on it before heading out solo. I didn't get official training but was taken out by a friend with extensive training who drives for a living so felt much more confident before going solo as it were.

Apparently training does/did not cover recovery action when a heavy trailer starts to snake. That's the alarming aspect of towing

Seems like a fundamental omission...

Impossible to simulate or train for on the public road. To include it somehow on a private area would increase the costs exponentially. Enough people mithered about the cost of the training as it was anyway!

[bigothunter]

normalbloke said:

bigothunter said:

geeks said:

The training wont have been wasted though, I am still of the opinion you should at least take some basic training on it before heading out solo. I didn't get official training but was taken out by a friend with extensive training who drives for a living so felt much more confident before going solo as it were.

Apparently training does/did not cover recovery action when a heavy trailer starts to snake. That's the alarming aspect of towing

Seems like a fundamental omission...

Impossible to simulate or train for on the public road. To include it somehow on a private area would increase the costs exponentially. Enough people mithered about the cost of the training as it was anyway!

When the consequences of losing control can be so serious, can't afford proper training is a lame excuse...

[300bhp/ton]

jjg23 said:

Hey,
I have a mate who got his licence after 1997 and we need him to drive a Lander Rover Defender 2014 with gross weight 2505kg (rated to tow 3500kg braked) and he needs to tow a braked trailer loaded to around 2,800kg (including weight of the trailer).
Is he allowed to on a standard UK driving licence with no extra qualifications? I know they changed the rules last year, and the Government website so badly worded, i cannot work it out!!
Help appreciated.
Cheers

If you can't understand the wording on the .gov site, maybe you shouldn't be driving. It is pretty clear tbh...

[300bhp/ton]

MethylatedSpirit said:

I didn't realise they'd changed in December.

So my trailer test 4 years ago seems worthless now

To some extent, although you got 4 years of use out of it...

[300bhp/ton]

bigothunter said:

geeks said:

The training wont have been wasted though, I am still of the opinion you should at least take some basic training on it before heading out solo. I didn't get official training but was taken out by a friend with extensive training who drives for a living so felt much more confident before going solo as it were.

Apparently training does/did not cover recovery action when a heavy trailer starts to snake. That's the alarming aspect of towing

Seems like a fundamental omission...

But did you regular driving test & training teach you about oversteering and what to do when a car slides? Not saying it shouldn't have, but you can see how it is consistent in its approach.

[300bhp/ton]

bigothunter said:

normalbloke said:

bigothunter said:

geeks said:

The training wont have been wasted though, I am still of the opinion you should at least take some basic training on it before heading out solo. I didn't get official training but was taken out by a friend with extensive training who drives for a living so felt much more confident before going solo as it were.

Apparently training does/did not cover recovery action when a heavy trailer starts to snake. That's the alarming aspect of towing

Seems like a fundamental omission...

Impossible to simulate or train for on the public road. To include it somehow on a private area would increase the costs exponentially. Enough people mithered about the cost of the training as it was anyway!

When the consequences of losing control can be so serious, can't afford proper training is a lame excuse...

Yet...


What training did you do to avoid things like this as part of your driving test?