Verbal NoIP

[Code]

Hello, a friend with a clean licence, was pulled for speeding. Office claimed 71mph in a 60mph. Although, he said he'd need to check the calibration kit in the car.

A verbal roadside NoIP was given and he said he'd suggest a Driver awareness course. All perfectly amicable and he stated that the driver would receive something in the mail in a few days.

No ticket was issued roadside and nothing has arrived via mail. (Couple of weeks)

What is likely to happen? How will they proceed? I think they have ~6 months to act once a verbal NoIP is issued? Is this correct?

Any advice or information will be greatly appreciated.

[edthefed]

Far too many unknowns....

Can your friend differentiate between being spoken to under caution and "receiving a verbal NIP" - there is a specific wording that needs to be used

Checking the calibration / accuracy of the speedo is legally required if the police vehicle did not have one fitted - there used to be "measured miles" that this could be done on.Was this done, was the speedo found to be accurate

Written NIPs to be served on the registered keeper and or driver within 14 days - is your friend the registered keeper ?

Speeding is a summary offence therefore proceedings have to be commenced within 6 months of the date of the offence - normally as there are exceptions

Police Officers are human - may have genuinely forgotten or not had time to do the paperwork, may have got tied up with a complex matter deemed more important, may have gone on leave, off sick, posted elsewhere, gone on attachment

May have decided that the "fear" of getting an NIP etc is enough of a deterrent

[Jamescrs]

edthefed said:

Far too many unknowns....

Can your friend differentiate between being spoken to under caution and "receiving a verbal NIP" - there is a specific wording that needs to be used

Checking the calibration / accuracy of the speedo is legally required if the police vehicle did not have one fitted - there used to be "measured miles" that this could be done on.Was this done, was the speedo found to be accurate

Written NIPs to be served on the registered keeper and or driver within 14 days - is your friend the registered keeper ?

Speeding is a summary offence therefore proceedings have to be commenced within 6 months of the date of the offence - normally as there are exceptions

Police Officers are human - may have genuinely forgotten or not had time to do the paperwork, may have got tied up with a complex matter deemed more important, may have gone on leave, off sick, posted elsewhere, gone on attachment

May have decided that the "fear" of getting an NIP etc is enough of a deterrent

Just to confirm a point a written NIP does not have to be issued within 14 days where the driver has been stopped by the Police and given an NIP verbally. The purpose of the written NIP within 14 days is where the owner of the vehicle at the time of the offence was not necessarily aware they had committed an offence or had been caught doing so, or may not have been the driver, it is considered that 14 days is a reasonable time for the owner to recall who the driver was to provide details.

As in this case the driver was stopped by Police at the time of the alleged offence the 14 day window does not apply as the driver knows they were stopped on that date and time and can recall the incident at the time and was given an NIP verbally.

It's not to say a written NIP won't follow but it wouldn't be a get out to not receive one within 14 days, the 6 month time limit applies

[Code]

edthefed said:

Far too many unknowns....

Can your friend differentiate between being spoken to under caution and "receiving a verbal NIP" - there is a specific wording that needs to be used

Intresting question, and I'm not entirely sure.

What is the required wording for a verbal NoIP?

He took details, read rights and said she will probably receive something in the mail in a few days re her driving.

He seemed very interested in discussing road safety, as you might expect?


Thanks for the input.

Edited by Code on Tuesday 12th April 11:13

[Code]

edthefed said:

Far too many unknowns....

Checking the calibration / accuracy of the speedo is legally required if the police vehicle did not have one fitted - there used to be "measured miles" that this could be done on.Was this done, was the speedo found to be accurate

Yes, I thought that intresting, I'm really not sure what he meant by look at the "calibration in the car".

He seemed particularly interested in talking about police presence and road safety. Apparently, a really nice guy.

He checked everthing was legal - it was.

Driver is registered keeper.

I guess the best thing is to wait and see?

Thanks again.

[Code]

Jamescrs said:

Just to confirm a point a written NIP does not have to be issued within 14 days where the driver has been stopped by the Police and given an NIP verbally. The purpose of the written NIP within 14 days is where the owner of the vehicle at the time of the offence was not necessarily aware they had committed an offence or had been caught doing so, or may not have been the driver, it is considered that 14 days is a reasonable time for the owner to recall who the driver was to provide details.

As in this case the driver was stopped by Police at the time of the alleged offence the 14 day window does not apply as the driver knows they were stopped on that date and time and can recall the incident at the time and was given an NIP verbally.

It's not to say a written NIP won't follow but it wouldn't be a get out to not receive one within 14 days, the 6 month time limit applies

Yes, that's how I understood the NoIP process to work. Thanks for the clarification - appreciated.

[edthefed]

Code said:

Intresting question, and I'm not entirely sure.

What is the required wording for a verbal NoIP?

He took details, read rights and said she will probably receive something in the mail in a few days re her driving.

He seemed very interested in discussing road safety, as you might expect?


Thanks for the input.

Read rights ? By which i presume your friend was cautioned and advised that they did not have to say anything but anything they did say might be later used in court ? That is not required when questioning to confirm identity etc BUT is required when being spoken to / interviewed about an alleged offence

A verbal NIP is a form of words which from memory is "you will be reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for the offence of" or similar...some time since i was involved in that area.

The officer submits the report it is others who actually deal with all the resulting paperwork (Central Processing Unit/ Casualty reduction unit etc) Once the initial report is submitted the officer will have little or no involvement in what happens next

Edited by Code on Tuesday 12th April 11:13

[Code]

EdtheFed,

Yep, your presumption is correct - a very accurate description. He also said he'd mark the speed as 71mph and would suggest a drivers awareness course in his report.

From your description I'd concluded, in all probability, a verbal NoIP was issued and report submitted.

So, I guess it's just an issue of waiting and seeing what happens? They have 6 months to act as I understand it.

As for evidence of the alleged offence - I'm guessing this based on the officer's interpretation of the event?

Thanks for the input - it's really appreciated.

Edited by Code on Tuesday 12th April 12:21

[Code]

Edthefed,

Re verbal NoIP, as I understand it, he said or implied he would need to submit a report.

This is not clear from her memory of the event, in fact, she didn't know if she'd been given an NoIP. I strongly suspect she was given her description.

[edthefed]

Code said:

EdtheFed,

Yep, your presumption is correct - a very accurate description. He also said he'd mark the speed as 71mph and would suggest a drivers awareness course in his report.

From your description I'd concluded, in all probability, a verbal NoIP was issued and report submitted.

So, I guess it's just an issue of waiting and seeing what happens? They have 6 months to act as I understand it.

As for evidence of the alleged offence - I'm guessing this based on the officer's interpretation of the event?

Thanks for the input - it's really appreciated.

Edited by Code on Tuesday 12th April 12:21

Without getting into the realms of who can be considered an expert witness by a court

A Police Officer can give evidence that in their opinion an individual was speeding, however that opinion requires corroboration

That corroboration can come in various forms including

Use of a speed detection device eg Laser
Corroboration via the police vehicles calibrated speedometer if fitted ie following your friend at a constant gap
It is possible to monitor speed using a vehicle with a standard / calibrated speedometer eg beat car following your friend and the speedo on the beat car indicates 71 - however the court will want evidence that the beat car speedometer was reading accurately and this is what the officer may have been referring to
To do that we used to measure the time over a "measured mile" or of course it can be checked using more technical means.

As i said it nay just be that the officer has got involved in something more complicated, higher priority and the paperwork has been overlooked / forgotten about owing to other pressures, or it may be 5 months 30 days a summons drops through the letter box

Or at some point an offer of a speed awareness

Or they hear nothing more !

[Code]

Edthefed,

My resonably informed guess is the officer is of the opinion she was speeding. :-)

I'm guessing the corroborating evidence is the speedometer readings. Hence the remark re calibration. As you have suggested above.

There's possibly a few issues with the interpretation of the speedometer readings due to the nature of the road, the suggestion the officer's car was not a consistant distance behind the alleged speeding car and was following for a fairly limited period. Although, I far from certain of any of this, as I'm not entirely sure what actually happen.

TBH, the officer sounds like a really decent guy, polite, constructive and helpful. Certainly no issues there. So, we'll wait and see.

Thanks for your input, it really is appreciated.

Edited by Code on Tuesday 12th April 13:30

[Cat]

Code said:

was following for a fairly limited period.

How limited a period? The minimum distance for a follow check is 2 tenths of a mile. At 71mph that is about 10 seconds.

Cat

[Code]

Cat said:

How limited a period? The minimum distance for a follow check is 2 tenths of a mile. At 71mph that is about 10 seconds.

Cat

Given the description of events and knowing the road I doubt very much that 10s at 71 mph at a consistant distance behind the alleged vehical is probable.

However, my understanding may simple be incorrect, for various reasons, so I wouldn't give my interpretation too much weight.

And, I'm certainly not suggesting the office is making things up - far from it. I'm just trying to familiarise myself with the process.

As said previously, and worth saying again, the officer seemed very professional, was courteous, polite and constructive - a decent chap. So, it'll be intresting to see what was reported.

Intresting point you raise, though, and I'll certainly give this some more consideration. Thanks.

Edited by Code on Tuesday 12th April 18:50

[Code]

Cat said:

How limited a period? The minimum distance for a follow check is 2 tenths of a mile. At 71mph that is about 10 seconds.

Cat

In fact, 10s with the the alleged car in sight at anywhere near 71mph isn't plausible on this road.

This explains a lot, particularly the confusion expressed at the roadside by both individuals.

I guess if this does go anywhere the next step is to request evidence? Although, I'm not entirely sure probably best to be patient. We'll seek council if necessary.

Thanks for the input - very intresting.