GPS tracking recommended to replace road tax
Discussion
So, as the title suggests, the transport select committee has recommended that a pay per mile system is to be used to replace VED - as we're all going to be buying electric by 2030 they need another way to squeeze money out of drivers.
They say that the only way to implement this is to have "telemetry" to record the mileage, when and where you drive. Theres hints towards a higher fee for driving during rush-hour, which we all love doing so much...
It looks that the gov is pretty keen on this idea too. Not that we should have any reason to doubt their ability or good intentions.
Petition against it recently started here:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/613101
Report source here:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmsel...
Other links:
https://www.taxadept.co.uk/news/business-news/arch...
https://24htech.asia/uk-road-pricing-plans-gps-tra...
They say that the only way to implement this is to have "telemetry" to record the mileage, when and where you drive. Theres hints towards a higher fee for driving during rush-hour, which we all love doing so much...
It looks that the gov is pretty keen on this idea too. Not that we should have any reason to doubt their ability or good intentions.
Petition against it recently started here:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/613101
Report source here:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmsel...
Other links:
https://www.taxadept.co.uk/news/business-news/arch...
https://24htech.asia/uk-road-pricing-plans-gps-tra...
king surprise then. It would certainly help reduce congestion as I would minimize all driving if it ever arrives.
Oh and you can be sure that they will keep all existing "car taxes" in place and just add this new one!
What a time for car owners to be alive though - boring EV will soon be mandatory, sound Regs making new ICE cars no louder than a hoover, speed limiters (always on every ignition cycle) almost here, new law coming to stop people modding their vehicles ...
TX.
Oh and you can be sure that they will keep all existing "car taxes" in place and just add this new one!
What a time for car owners to be alive though - boring EV will soon be mandatory, sound Regs making new ICE cars no louder than a hoover, speed limiters (always on every ignition cycle) almost here, new law coming to stop people modding their vehicles ...
TX.
When you put 'road usage' and 'congestion' together, it seems to me that a lot of the congestion is caused by people's usage of the road for parking.
If you remove the VED element of discouraging people from owning and parking more and more cars, congestion will get worse.
Of course what is not said, is that HMG makes a lot of money from the VAT of people buying lots of excess cars.
1.6 million new cars sold, average price £25k would be £8 billion in VAT?
If you remove the VED element of discouraging people from owning and parking more and more cars, congestion will get worse.
Of course what is not said, is that HMG makes a lot of money from the VAT of people buying lots of excess cars.
1.6 million new cars sold, average price £25k would be £8 billion in VAT?
OutInTheShed said:
When you put 'road usage' and 'congestion' together, it seems to me that a lot of the congestion is caused by people's usage of the road for parking.
Tesla charges "idle fees" when people leave a car on one of their chargers after it has finished charging, £1 a minute if the charger bays are all occupied - something similar could be done for road pricing where you pay for parking too.I'm not suggesting it's a good thing, but if parking on the road cost £1 per day per car, I know a few people who would start using their driveways instead of the road. Would be a bit harsh for those who need to move cars about to get cars on and off the drive through.
Street parking is a positive thing in some situations, of course. I'm quite happy for people to park on my street as it makes it more awkward to drive through and hence less appealing as a rat run. Having lost a couple of mirrors over the years to rat-runners I'm in no hurry to do so with my own cars!
Terminator X said:
It would certainly help reduce congestion as I would minimize all driving if it ever arrives.
Oh and you can be sure that they will keep all existing "car taxes" in place and just add this new one!
What a time for car owners to be alive though - boring EV will soon be mandatory, sound Regs making new ICE cars no louder than a hoover, speed limiters (always on every ignition cycle) almost here, new law coming to stop people modding their vehicles ...
TX.
I think minimizing driving is exactly what they want. They can't ban cars but they can make them so unpleasant that people give them up.Oh and you can be sure that they will keep all existing "car taxes" in place and just add this new one!
What a time for car owners to be alive though - boring EV will soon be mandatory, sound Regs making new ICE cars no louder than a hoover, speed limiters (always on every ignition cycle) almost here, new law coming to stop people modding their vehicles ...
TX.
At what point will people speak up and say that its too far?
So far people forget that these things affect almost everyone of working age & they say "oh well if got nothing to hide", that maybe true - but they won't have a choice if this comes in. Its like they've taken Orwell as inspiration...
GPS for mileage monitoring and charging will also mean should you decide to override the mandatory speed limiter (if fitted) they can do you for speeding without a camera or cop car….
If this all goes ahead, I want shares in the company making the GPS units…. make a mint for a couple of years.
Will they insist on retrofitting these boxes on Historic Vehicles that do a couple of hundred miles a year?
If this all goes ahead, I want shares in the company making the GPS units…. make a mint for a couple of years.
Will they insist on retrofitting these boxes on Historic Vehicles that do a couple of hundred miles a year?
This has been on the cards for years.
Why do you think the Govt. has been so keen to have our own satellite system, Galileo or otherwise?
All the talk about EV, pollution, congestion etc is a front.
The motorist is a cash cow to take money from & spunk up against the wall in other ways.
Road pricing, driving in a city, different charges per location & don't forget, if they can tell where you are at any given point, a simple calculation of Distance/Time gives them your Speed so welcome to a new array of exciting new speeding fines.
Bugger.
Why do you think the Govt. has been so keen to have our own satellite system, Galileo or otherwise?
All the talk about EV, pollution, congestion etc is a front.
The motorist is a cash cow to take money from & spunk up against the wall in other ways.
Road pricing, driving in a city, different charges per location & don't forget, if they can tell where you are at any given point, a simple calculation of Distance/Time gives them your Speed so welcome to a new array of exciting new speeding fines.
Bugger.
There's a very simple way to do this without the need for any on board tech, via the MOT test. Simply set the fee according to the mileage for the year. Introduce a quick mileage check and fee for those vehicles under three years old and to cover change of ownership. I would include those vehicles currently VED exempt, when selling the vendor has to hand over a new MOT mileage paid receipt.
This has been an inevitable outcome for years. I remember a friend looking at EU funding for automotive projects about 15 years ago and there was a ton of funding available for EV related projects with a pre-requisite that the systems included GPS tracking etc.
The big question is what entities have been pushing these systems? Any policy implementation now will have been seeded a generation ahead of time...
The big question is what entities have been pushing these systems? Any policy implementation now will have been seeded a generation ahead of time...
HappyMidget said:
We really don't have the infrastructure to support such a system and the amounts of data involved so I wouldn't worry for a good few years yet.
I suspect the onus will be put upon the car manufacturers to handle data collection and reporting, leaving gov to aggregate and audit.egomeister said:
I suspect the onus will be put upon the car manufacturers to handle data collection and reporting, leaving gov to aggregate and audit.
Or possibly insurance companies. They have some experience with their black box tech. Doing it at MOT time, as above, could work, but new vehicles don't go for MOTs, it wouldn't allow for different pricings at different times, and you'd need a system for "Actually, that was in France" cases.
“Our most glorious leader has seen gps tracks which show that you attended a proscribed event on 19 April. The most glorious committee have decided to turn off your vehicles for the next three months until you have completed the most glorious re-education programme.”
I’ll stick with twin strombergs and an old road atlas when the revolution comes!
I’ll stick with twin strombergs and an old road atlas when the revolution comes!
They'll do their usual of making it seem like a "discount" - for example a car tax charge of £2k a year (which is something like thethe average fuel duty paid per car +50% ) with the option of having pay-per-mile instead if you have the box fitted.
Perhaps a £2k cap on PPM tax too if they are being generous.
The argument of "it's too prying/govt forcing us to be tracked" is then null as no one is forced to do it...
Plus it defaults to the £2k bill if there's evidence of "tampering" or discrepancies in mileage at MOT time etc.
That way it's being sold cynically as a "discount" rather than some sort of dystopian future.
Uptake would probably be surprisingly high as most people do significantly under the average+50% figure.
Those doing more miles than £2k's worth would be a fairly small number of people (who would also be paying some tax on their electricity anyway) so it wouldn't be an issue.
Then if it all goes well, remove the cap... Or make it very very high to "encourage" more people to "save money"
There's a sort of precedent in Water meters and Smart Meters...
Perhaps a £2k cap on PPM tax too if they are being generous.
The argument of "it's too prying/govt forcing us to be tracked" is then null as no one is forced to do it...
Plus it defaults to the £2k bill if there's evidence of "tampering" or discrepancies in mileage at MOT time etc.
That way it's being sold cynically as a "discount" rather than some sort of dystopian future.
Uptake would probably be surprisingly high as most people do significantly under the average+50% figure.
Those doing more miles than £2k's worth would be a fairly small number of people (who would also be paying some tax on their electricity anyway) so it wouldn't be an issue.
Then if it all goes well, remove the cap... Or make it very very high to "encourage" more people to "save money"
There's a sort of precedent in Water meters and Smart Meters...
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