Using your vehicle for self defence

[Pixelpeep 135]

Hasn't happened to me, or anyone i know, but sometimes i've felt a vibe that something was going to go down...

I have had a situation which happened right in the height of all that moped crime just before covid where a few kids on mopeds circling the car, erratic movements, peering in, swerving in front and then out of the way etc. Not sure what the motivation was, car jacking, robbery, just messing about?

I've always driven flavour of the month cars for car jackings Golf R, Audi S3 and now an M135i so i think i am a little more heightened to it.

I said to my other half at the time, "if it comes to it, i'm ploughing into them, hope you are ok with that.."

only reason i bring it up now is that story that was in the news about the woman who nudged a protester and got banned from driving. The common theme seems to be you shouldn't use your vehicle as a weapon.

Where would you sit in a situation like above?

[UTH]

Interesting.

If you can prove it was in self defence, wouldn't it be the same as using a knife or other weapon in self defence?

[untakenname]

If it's self defence then it's ok, guy killed a knifeman with his car a couple of months back and was released without charge.
https://inews.co.uk/news/maida-vale-stabbing-drive...

[Canon_Fodder]

Pixelpeep 135 said:

H

"if it comes to it, i'm ploughing into them, .."

If they're pointing a gun / knife at you - yes

Otherwise - no

[Driver101]

There's already a few threads running on this very topic. Getting yourself out of a potentially dangerous situation is nothing like the woman pushing the protestors with her Range Rover.

It wasn't a nudge either. She was on the verge of going over the top of them. If they didn't slide on the road surface then the RR would have gone over them.

Edited by Driver101 on Friday 13th May 11:47

[kiethton]

Have done so once

Guy threatening me with a screwdriver and trying to block me leaving a residential car park (olld flat) while his mate went to collect a van to block me in. I was already on the phone to the police - "I fear for my safety, can I just go" and the answer was yes - I drove on, gently into him and accelerated slowly though him, he jumped out of the way after realizing that he wasn't going to stop a moving van and I cracked on and left. I heard nothing more but understand he was well known to the police and picked up subsequently.

[Canon_Fodder]

kiethton said:

Have done so once

Guy threatening me with a screwdriver and trying to block me leaving a residential car park (olld flat) while his mate went to collect a van to block me in. I was already on the phone to the police - "I fear for my safety, can I just go" and the answer was yes - I drove on, gently into him and accelerated slowly though him, he jumped out of the way after realizing that he wasn't going to stop a moving van and I cracked on and left. I heard nothing more but understand he was well known to the police and picked up subsequently.

That's an interesting real-world example

[98elise]

untakenname said:

If it's self defence then it's ok, guy killed a knifeman with his car a couple of months back and was released without charge.
https://inews.co.uk/news/maida-vale-stabbing-drive...

This. If I felt threatened enough I would have no problem using my car for self defence.

[anonymous-user]

The best to do is make your way to the nearest service station and arm yourself with one of those microwaveable apple pies.

[jamei303]

Be aware that most new cars won't let you do this, the pedestrian and vehicle detection auto-braking will kick in. In the event you need to ram your way past an ambushing vehicle, if you sustain damage, the safety systems may even disable your car and switch of the ignition requiring a hard reset which can't be done in a hurry.

[Driveeasy]

Newarch said:

The best to do is make your way to the nearest service station and arm yourself with one of those microwaveable apple pies.

This. They are hotter than the sun.

[rfisher]

Remember seeing a video of a bloke in the USA who nudged a Hell's Angel and his bike went over.

Did it because he panicked as 30+ of them were passing him on both sides.

Bikers then forced him to stop, smashed the window to get in, and either killed him or did some serious damage to him.

So don't try it with a group of bikers.

[OutInTheShed]

This assault is sounding pre-meditated already!

</devils_advocate>

[NMNeil]

Considering you are in a tin box with lockable doors and tough to break windows, going to be hard to prove that driving over someone was your only method of self defense, and you had no other alternatives.

[SeekerOfTruthAndPies]

As with any hypothetical situation, it would depend on the actual circumstances unfortunately. The law allows you to use reasonable force to defend yourself - the key word here being reasonable.

The real world example above of man with knife being killed was deemed reasonable. Running over a moped rider because you're in a Golf R and he's riding erratically is probably (definitely) not.

[georgeyboy12345]

Pixelpeep 135 said:

only reason i bring it up now is that story that was in the news about the woman who nudged a protester and got banned from driving. The common theme seems to be you shouldn't use your vehicle as a weapon.

That is nothing like being carjacked.

[K4sper]

NMNeil said:

Considering you are in a tin box with lockable doors and tough to break windows, going to be hard to prove that driving over someone was your only method of self defense, and you had no other alternatives.

Neither of which are part of the legal test.

You will need to show that (1) you actually believed that the use of force (i.e. some force) was necessary in the circumstances and (2) you actually believed that the amount of force you used was reasonable in the circumstances.

If you can convince a jury / magistrate that in that very moment you only did what you honestly and instinctively thought necessary, then the defence should succeed

[donkmeister]

jamei303 said:

Be aware that most new cars won't let you do this, the pedestrian and vehicle detection auto-braking will kick in. In the event you need to ram your way past an ambushing vehicle, if you sustain damage, the safety systems may even disable your car and switch of the ignition requiring a hard reset which can't be done in a hurry.

My LS460 allows you to disable these features - switch by the TPMS reset button IIRC... Might have to acquaint myself with the operation just in case!

[Pica-Pica]

K4sper said:

NMNeil said:

Considering you are in a tin box with lockable doors and tough to break windows, going to be hard to prove that driving over someone was your only method of self defense, and you had no other alternatives.

Neither of which are part of the legal test.

You will need to show that (1) you actually believed that the use of force (i.e. some force) was necessary in the circumstances and (2) you actually believed that the amount of force you used was reasonable in the circumstances.

If you can convince a jury / magistrate that in that very moment you only did what you honestly and instinctively thought necessary, then the defence should succeed

You would have a hard job convincing me, it would have to be extreme, and the vehicle trapped.

[K4sper]

Pica-Pica said:

K4sper said:

NMNeil said:

Considering you are in a tin box with lockable doors and tough to break windows, going to be hard to prove that driving over someone was your only method of self defense, and you had no other alternatives.

Neither of which are part of the legal test.

You will need to show that (1) you actually believed that the use of force (i.e. some force) was necessary in the circumstances and (2) you actually believed that the amount of force you used was reasonable in the circumstances.

If you can convince a jury / magistrate that in that very moment you only did what you honestly and instinctively thought necessary, then the defence should succeed

You would have a hard job convincing me, it would have to be extreme, and the vehicle trapped.

But they wouldn't have to convince you that it was necessary, only that they thought it was. There are a thousand situations where someone in a car might honestly believe it would be reasonable to push someone out of the way with their car. Granted, a moped weaving around in front of you might not cut it... but 5 moped riders that stopped all around you car shouting at the driver might lead a little old lady to think she has no choice but to floor it.

Also doesn't matter if that belief is mistakenly held, as long as it is genuinely held