Lowered speed limit
Discussion
There have been numerous posts concerning lowered speed limits. 60 to 50, 40 to 30 etc.
Stroud in Gloucestershire has just lowered a 60 to 30 in one step! Ebley by-pass travelling out of Stroud is an almost straight wide road leaving a short 30 limit, followed by 60 & then dropped to 40 for the last stretch through 2 close sets of traffic lights to a roundabout. The previous 60 stretch is now 30 & the 40 remains.
Stroud in Gloucestershire has just lowered a 60 to 30 in one step! Ebley by-pass travelling out of Stroud is an almost straight wide road leaving a short 30 limit, followed by 60 & then dropped to 40 for the last stretch through 2 close sets of traffic lights to a roundabout. The previous 60 stretch is now 30 & the 40 remains.
Ninja59 said:
Has there been accidents or high KSI rates?
No, there is a large amount of development work taking place in the fields that run parallel to the bypass. This has led to a huge increase in the number of hgvs making deliveries which are often reversing in/taking most of road to swing in/out.Im a local and use the road daily, I'm on night shifts at the moment and having to do 30mph along a road that is suitable for 60mph is frustrating.
What is annoying is how many police cars that are driving up and down the bypass but as of yet I have not seen any evidence of speed checks. When they do, I expect the police will be able to afford a very lavish Christmas dinner!!
Also worth noting I'm extra bitter because I was caught speeding on the bypass about 10 years ago and I've never seen a the traffic police hiding in the layby just before what was a NSL sign that's now a 30.
edit, pic for reference, it's a 1.25mile section of road. There are now at least 3 new/active entrance points to the fields on the left hand side. of this picture.
A better plan could have been a 30mph limit during 6Am>6Pm.
Edited by aka_kerrly on Wednesday 29th June 07:50
Surrey has reduced a lot of NSLs to 30 recently. Very, very irritating, especially when it's done not because there's a history of accidents, but because snail-paced drivers find that NSLs are reckless. I have several friends who when informed that the sign which looks like a white circle with the diagonal black line through it means the speed limit for car drivers is either 60mph or 70mph have reacted with shock and disbelief. These seem to be the same sorts of people who are involved in setting speed limits. It's madness.
https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/reckl...
https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/reckl...
aka_kerrly said:
What is annoying is how many police cars that are driving up and down the bypass but as of yet I have not seen any evidence of speed checks. When they do, I expect the police will be able to afford a very lavish Christmas dinner!!
Not sure if you were serious or just venting but fines go to the treasury, not the force.I'm convinced it's not really safety driven. Lots of 60's locally have gone, loads of new 20's. I think it's to not spend the money since I'd assume the spec needed for a 60mph road is far higher than slower roads. The roads have been in a terrible state for years and they rarely get done. The ones that do are the ones they've managed to keep the 60 limit and even then it's a chipping skim and not proper tarmac. A stretch of my commute was a mix of 60, 40 and 30. Most of it was blanket changed to 20mph, they extended corners out to narrow the main road and slow cars. This had the unforeseen effect of making it far harder for buses to turn into the estate. But they didn't resurface the road. It's so bad I'd be better off on a Scrambler than a road bike or car.
vaud said:
aka_kerrly said:
What is annoying is how many police cars that are driving up and down the bypass but as of yet I have not seen any evidence of speed checks. When they do, I expect the police will be able to afford a very lavish Christmas dinner!!
Not sure if you were serious or just venting but fines go to the treasury, not the force.
Valid point, yes I'm guilty of getting a bit carried away there.
I must say it's still also a little strange that the local road that has been cheesing me off for a few days has made it to PH and hasn't even been covered by the local "news site" Stroud News & Journal
There could be many reasons. Accident rate is the main one but there are plenty of others. (2 x serious and 6 x slight in 5 years is pretty poor)
There is guidance out there that says you shouldn't have too many speed limit changes in a short section. Not sure 1.25 miles qualifies as "short" though. But ideally you don't want the road to go 30/60/40/30 (or whatever the sequence is) in quick succession.
What is either side of the road? If a road is 40mph+ then things like trees need protecting by safety fence (crash barrier), which is subject to minimum length requirements - if there are utilities in the way, or poor ground conditions, or too many accesses then the safety fence would not be able to be installed and the easiest/most effective option is reduce the speed limit.
Could be environment-related, maintenance related, weak structures, visibility distances, etc etc.
The speed limit would have been advertised, and may have had a reason attached. Look on the LA website, they should publish their traffic orders on there.
There is guidance out there that says you shouldn't have too many speed limit changes in a short section. Not sure 1.25 miles qualifies as "short" though. But ideally you don't want the road to go 30/60/40/30 (or whatever the sequence is) in quick succession.
What is either side of the road? If a road is 40mph+ then things like trees need protecting by safety fence (crash barrier), which is subject to minimum length requirements - if there are utilities in the way, or poor ground conditions, or too many accesses then the safety fence would not be able to be installed and the easiest/most effective option is reduce the speed limit.
Could be environment-related, maintenance related, weak structures, visibility distances, etc etc.
The speed limit would have been advertised, and may have had a reason attached. Look on the LA website, they should publish their traffic orders on there.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 29th June 09:21
OnTheBreadline said:
What is either side of the road? If a road is 40mph+ then things like trees need protecting by safety fence (crash barrier), which is subject to minimum length requirements
Sorry, every tree needs protecting by crash barriers on any road that is 40mph+? Since when? I'm off to buy shares in a crash barrier company as they're going to be very busy if thats a new rule.chrisga said:
OnTheBreadline said:
What is either side of the road? If a road is 40mph+ then things like trees need protecting by safety fence (crash barrier), which is subject to minimum length requirements
Sorry, every tree needs protecting by crash barriers on any road that is 40mph+? Since when? I'm off to buy shares in a crash barrier company as they're going to be very busy if thats a new rule.https://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/prod/attach...
(Page 22 gives a good example list of things that may need barrier - parapets, embankments, slopes, ditches etc etc)
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I do too, but there are consequences of breaking laws willy-nilly. You have to be on your guard not only against the normal hazards of the road, but also against speed traps and dashcam warriors who might decide to be holier than though. Not only that, but god forbid you should become involved in an accident, you will be presumed to be at least partially at fault because you are speeding even if there was no actual fault on your part.There's also the additional workload of constantly considering whether it's safe to do a particular speed. Not for yourself or other road users, because a good driver should always be doing that anyway. but safe for your licence.
I'd much rather a fast road had an NSL on it than a 30 which I then have to carefully decide whether to ignore or not. As for 20s, I ignore those routinely unless I am passing a school or am in a very urban environment where the density of pedestrians or other traffic requires that I comply. But then I'd likely be doing 20mph or less in those situations even in the absence of a speed limit.
LunarOne said:
These seem to be the same sorts of people who are involved in setting speed limits. It's madness.
Missed this tin-foil hatted gem 
I guarantee you, the people setting the limits will have far more knowledge about the background, detail and workings of roads and traffic than you.
I've said before on here many times, give someone a driving licence and they immediately become an overnight expert on road maintenance, safety background, traffic strategy, parking etc.
When I did my IAM bike test some years back it was with a police bike instructor, he had a moan about a couple of areas near Godalming/Guildford that had recently dropped speed limits. Apparently the council had done it with no consultation with the police, in his opinion it was completely unnecessary, and he gave the impression they had no intention of enforcing it. So don't necessarily moan about the police for lowered limits.
Reading the second more detailed post by the OP describes an increase in hgv use with entry/exits to nearby developments, similar to roadworks having reduced limits. This might be the reason for the speed reduction. Is the reduction described in the proposals temporary during works?
What is the development? Housing? Industrial? It might therefore lead to a permanent speed limit reduction due to side/access roads becoming permanent.
What is the development? Housing? Industrial? It might therefore lead to a permanent speed limit reduction due to side/access roads becoming permanent.
RizzoTheRat said:
When I did my IAM bike test some years back it was with a police bike instructor, he had a moan about a couple of areas near Godalming/Guildford that had recently dropped speed limits. Apparently the council had done it with no consultation with the police, in his opinion it was completely unnecessary, and he gave the impression they had no intention of enforcing it. So don't necessarily moan about the police for lowered limits.
I'd say he was lying, or at best mistaken. The Police need to sign off the speed limits, and are automatic statutory consultees for any permanent traffic order. The Police will sign off 20mph limits on the understanding that there is to be no additional expectation of enforcement, and that the 20mph zones are "self enforcing". (I think the Met have slightly different rules, but I've put in limits all over the country except London, and the process has always been the same)
OnTheBreadline said:
LunarOne said:
These seem to be the same sorts of people who are involved in setting speed limits. It's madness.
Missed this tin-foil hatted gem I guarantee you, the people setting the limits will have far more knowledge about the background, detail and workings of roads and traffic than you.
I've said before on here many times, give someone a driving licence and they immediately become an overnight expert on road maintenance, safety background, traffic strategy, parking etc.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Local, as in VERY local (parish/district councils) then yes I agree, it's a lot of NIMBY opinions. But the Chief Officer in the Highway Authority/County Council/Unitary Authority (other job titles may apply) who signs off the publication of the TRO will most certainly be qualified. The people (local cllrs etc) requesting them might not be qualified/experienced, but the people enacting them will be. And as said above, it might not be purely down to the number of accidents, there may be other reasons, but those reasons will be published somewhere. A speed limit on a straight, open, weell-maintained/new bypass would not be reduced without a good reason.
OnTheBreadline said:
I guarantee you, the people setting the limits will have far more knowledge about the background, detail and workings of roads and traffic than you.
I've said before on here many times, give someone a driving licence and they immediately become an overnight expert on road maintenance, safety background, traffic strategy, parking etc.
Several inappropriate 20 limits have sprouted recently on local town access routes. In some locations, the hazard has actually increased. Almost everyone ignores them including police drivers.I've said before on here many times, give someone a driving licence and they immediately become an overnight expert on road maintenance, safety background, traffic strategy, parking etc.
However when I have time to waste and the mood takes me, I make a conscious effort not the break the law. Can't be criticised for that. Glued to the speedo with vacant expression, I ensure that needle need exceeds 20 not matter how ridiculous it feels. Queue of irate drivers builds up behind, with the leader often sitting right on my tail. But this farce is all in the name of safety.
Couldn't make it up. What a laugh
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