Average speed cameras A44 - Fish Hill
Discussion
https://www.cotswoldjournal.co.uk/news/20276828.a4...
I don't think speed cameras will solve the bikers falling off problem. It is difficult to corner above NSL for turns 1,3 and 4 where as the first right hander can catch lots of people out and thats in a car. On a bike the second right hander tightens considerably and the entrance to the Fish is there, albeit it has limited use, but enough for people to end up in the hedge.
I don't think speed cameras will solve the bikers falling off problem. It is difficult to corner above NSL for turns 1,3 and 4 where as the first right hander can catch lots of people out and thats in a car. On a bike the second right hander tightens considerably and the entrance to the Fish is there, albeit it has limited use, but enough for people to end up in the hedge.
- edit - the news article refers to the junction following fish hill. Thats cars pulling out and bikers potentially going quicker than the car expects. (assumption)
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 21st July 10:35
I drove by the first incident shortly after it happened and guessed what had occurred looking at the state of the Audi.
It’s a crap junction to turn across the road on. Very distraught driver and very anxious people trying to look after the biker.
Thoughts were with the biker all evening - I’m glad to hear they’re alive.
It’s a crap junction to turn across the road on. Very distraught driver and very anxious people trying to look after the biker.
Thoughts were with the biker all evening - I’m glad to hear they’re alive.
Apart from bikers over cooking it and drunks the biggest cause of normal crashes is cars exiting the Fish Hotel on the bend. Close that off as an exit and send the traffic up the lane to Dormy House and much of the problem goes away.
The other incident I've seen there over the years was a TVR driver who thought using engine breaking was intelligent until he gracefully went off into the gravel well below the speed limit.
Interestingly there are very few sports bikes around these days. 20 years ago there were a lot but the whole hobby seems to have died off dramatically.
The other incident I've seen there over the years was a TVR driver who thought using engine breaking was intelligent until he gracefully went off into the gravel well below the speed limit.
Interestingly there are very few sports bikes around these days. 20 years ago there were a lot but the whole hobby seems to have died off dramatically.
The recent crashes weren't on fish hill but the usual case of vegetables pulling out of buckle street having visited Broadway tower. Only a few years ago I stopped to help a bike who'd been hit by one of those spanners at the junction. The biker wasn't speeding but there seems to be a correlation between princess tower parts and their inability to navigate a junction.
Generally these incidents aren't anything to do with the victims speeding on the A44 but fat and old people who can't work out how to use a junction.
Generally these incidents aren't anything to do with the victims speeding on the A44 but fat and old people who can't work out how to use a junction.
Mr Spoon said:
It's the same at Hinton on the green. Impatient idiots pulling out in front of others.
Onto the Evesham Rd?I'm not sure the folk pulling out either from the Fish hotel or Broadway tower are driven by impatience. They just seem to have the air of low functioning about them.
If you're approaching that too junction from the other direction you know any car sitting there is a greater potential risk than normal and you do get that extra 6th sense warning from some way out at times.
I actually think that the pair of old estate gate pillars that are 20 feet back from the road have a lot to play with this. For some really odd reason they totally confuse some people. You'll often get one who stops at the gate posts for no reason or one exiting the main road who then stops at them.
After that crushing intellectual obstacle they eventually reach the actual junction but by then they're already on the back foot, confused and shaken up by the stone pillars. Once at the junction they than have to deal with the next debilitating issue which is the lack of road markings. By this time some of them even have become convinced it's one way. Despite pushing cars coming the other way into the hedge for the last quarter of an hour in their mind the junction has now become one way so if they're turning right they'll go and sit on the wrong lane! But even if they've realised it's still two way they can't work out where the edges are. The lack of curb, lack of clear markings, the tarmac joining line not being in the ideal place and the little lay-by directly to the left just blows their mind. They simply can't work out where to stop.
For the most part they stop about 6 feet back. This means they now block anyone turning in because of the mystical pillars that suck the functioning intellect from vegetables. It also means they have very poor line of sight to fish hill. These people will eventually jump forward as someone stuck by the pillars will blow their horn. But they don't know where to jump to so it might be up to the line or over the line.
And finally, you have the enormous problem of there being the chipping campden road opposite to contend with. They just can't cope if there is a car waiting at that junction.
Sadly, the problem at fish hill isn't bikers speeding or the recent brummie, pensioner super car runs from Bourton on the Hill to Broadway but it's that Broadway tower junction at the top and how the tower is a magnet for the thickest vegetables in our society. Some of them will at least have put red dragon stickers on the back of their car which seem to be the equivalent of London's fluorescent green disc for warning other road users. But most of the time you are reliant on ESP which seems to be aided by noting it's a Korean car and the pilot is overweight and staring vacantly at you before they decide to pull out.
These are the same vegetables that can't function on a two lane roundabout unless those two lanes are marked out completely clearly. The same tards who will cut a blind corner because it has no road markings. They are just very low IQ and without clear white paint on the road they genuinely can't work out where they need to be.
I suspect that if they put perfectly clear markings at the top junction and even moved those pillars either back or outwards then the problem would go away at the top of fish hill. And if they made the hotel exit no right turn then you wouldn't get vegetables pulling out at 1mph to cross three fast lanes which have no line of sight on the middle of a 90 degree bend.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Friday 22 July 08:10
Mr Spoon said:
This is a general issue across the driving populous. It is a shame that so many struggle with some basic concepts.
It is but there is no solution in terms of fixing those people. Other than costing them out of cars the only option is to make changes to the roads themselves. Having grown up in central London it's been a real shock to see just how appalling the standard of driving is out in places like the Cotswolds. People are simply half asleep or fundamentally retarded.
It's interesting that the article posted sees the solution as being average speed cameras when very few of the incidents are caused by people on the A44 actually speeding. But almost everytime caused by someone crawling out of a side road in front of oncoming traffic.
It's like the fork junction a couple of miles away at Troopers Lodge. Someone will die there every year and it's specifically because a low functioner will drive head on into an oncoming HGV that is obeying the speed limit or a low functioner pulls out of the Stow road in front of someone on the A44 who's obeying the speed limit.
It's fundamentally old people blaming bikers and supercars when it's then pulling out from junctions while on drugs.
What we used to call the Mogadon Stare years ago in London seems epidemic out here. It used to be housewives on the school run who'd be looking but not seeing as if loaded up on anti-depressants but out here I've had old folk sitting at junctions and they will be looking directly at you as you approach, they've seen you, they're waiting and then when you're barely 100 yards away they suddenly start pulling out and you only see them coming round to reality when your mainbeam and horn wakes them up.
But chubby folk cutting blind bends is equally baffling. Why do they want all the road? Are they confusing the tarmac with an all you can eat buffet? Or are they just really thick which is why they can't work out when to stop eating?
The other intriguing difference between here and London is that in London the cars that crash on their own on a Friday or Saturday night are usually driven by kids driving above the speed limit but out here it seems to be over 50s who just seemingly and randomly forget how a corner works.
But my folks live out near Stroud and if you think the Cotswolds is bad it pales compared to driving as you get around there!!
I do like flinging it up Fish Hill early on a summer morning.
The only accidents I've seen with my own eyes are just falling off on the last tight bend at the top who are in no danger of breaking any speed limits. Wouldn't surprise me if the junctions mentioned cause issues though. Whatever the issue, cameras aren't going to fix it.
I think there's a lane from Willersey up to the Fish Hotel, someone mentioned it not being a route you're supposed to use, gated off maybe, but still they use it as it's quicker than the trek from Fish Hill. I suppose you're supposed to be wowed by how bloody long the drive is.
The crossroads at Hinton's a bit different, the visibility from Childswickham to the right isn't great and the traffic flow is pretty continual there.
The only accidents I've seen with my own eyes are just falling off on the last tight bend at the top who are in no danger of breaking any speed limits. Wouldn't surprise me if the junctions mentioned cause issues though. Whatever the issue, cameras aren't going to fix it.
I think there's a lane from Willersey up to the Fish Hotel, someone mentioned it not being a route you're supposed to use, gated off maybe, but still they use it as it's quicker than the trek from Fish Hill. I suppose you're supposed to be wowed by how bloody long the drive is.
The crossroads at Hinton's a bit different, the visibility from Childswickham to the right isn't great and the traffic flow is pretty continual there.
I use that Childswickham exit when going to Cheltenham. It's not a manoeuvre you want to dawdle over that's for sure!!! At least you've got the lay-by on the left for someone to bail into!! But despite it being blatantly obvious that you're about to enter a fast moving road with a very short line of sight to the right the usual suspects still pull out and refuse to accelerate up to a safe speed.
I need a helicopter really. This time of year the flower beds in Montpellier gardens must be easy to spot from the air and anyone nearby is usually lying down. It seems a logical solution.
I need a helicopter really. This time of year the flower beds in Montpellier gardens must be easy to spot from the air and anyone nearby is usually lying down. It seems a logical solution.
768 said:
I do like flinging it up Fish Hill early on a summer morning.
The only accidents I've seen with my own eyes are just falling off on the last tight bend at the top who are in no danger of breaking any speed limits. Wouldn't surprise me if the junctions mentioned cause issues though. Whatever the issue, cameras aren't going to fix it.
I think there's a lane from Willersey up to the Fish Hotel, someone mentioned it not being a route you're supposed to use, gated off maybe, but still they use it as it's quicker than the trek from Fish Hill. I suppose you're supposed to be wowed by how bloody long the drive is.
The crossroads at Hinton's a bit different, the visibility from Childswickham to the right isn't great and the traffic flow is pretty continual there.
Yes it is gated, but from memory the gate can be manually opened when approachedThe only accidents I've seen with my own eyes are just falling off on the last tight bend at the top who are in no danger of breaking any speed limits. Wouldn't surprise me if the junctions mentioned cause issues though. Whatever the issue, cameras aren't going to fix it.
I think there's a lane from Willersey up to the Fish Hotel, someone mentioned it not being a route you're supposed to use, gated off maybe, but still they use it as it's quicker than the trek from Fish Hill. I suppose you're supposed to be wowed by how bloody long the drive is.
The crossroads at Hinton's a bit different, the visibility from Childswickham to the right isn't great and the traffic flow is pretty continual there.
spaximus said:
It is also sad they have turned two accidents where drivers have pulled out in front of bikes, with a need for average speed cameras and noise cameras.
These numpties think cameras solve everything but will do noting to stop idiot drivers pulling out in front of bikes
Arguably there are two separate issues. Bikes and super cars having fun on the hill but making a bit of noise and occasionally getting it wrong. And the second issue is thick and medicated people in C segment cars who cause fatal accidents, killing innocent people on the main road because they simply cannot negotiate a basic junction or recognise a dangerous junction and act appropriately. These numpties think cameras solve everything but will do noting to stop idiot drivers pulling out in front of bikes
Just now I've heard a biker leave Bourton on the Hill. You could hear all the flat out gear changes as he headed to Troopers Lodge. He may hoon it down Five Mile Drive but they usually don't. Bikers and fast cars like the Mulsanne Straight meets Eau Rouge section before Troopers Lodge (they don't know about the hidden link exit at the top on the left which amazingly hasn't killed anyone) but then usually run to Fish Hill sensibly. Throughout today there will be numerous such episodes.
Speed cameras would would curb that behaviour but it's not that behaviour that's causing all the crashes but people pulling out of side roads in front of vehicles that aren't speeding.
The other favourite C segment car crash other than pulling out of a junction in front of oncoming vehicles or turning off the A44 in front of an oncoming vehicle is to simply drive off the road into the trees after getting bored of driving in a straight line. You'll often see the roof of such a car down in the undergrowth along Five Mile Drive and no marks on the road but just a line of tire marks on the opposite verge showing the car just gently crossed the oncoming lane at a few degrees and went off into the trees.
Even in the article above, the accident wasn't caused by the bikes but the cars pulling out trying to kill them.
Here is the one from the other year where an old boy didn't see the oncoming lorry and turned in front of it: https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/chelten...
This one was the same junction but an old boy joining it without bothering to look over his shoulder to see if clear: https://www.wiltsglosstandard.co.uk/news/10100527....
This is the latest one where an old boy pulled out into traffic blindly: https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/chelten...
They've actually stopped repairing the road sign opposite the Blockley road onto the A44 because of the regularity at which someone will simply not stop and the junction and cross the A44, mount the bank and hit the signage.
People do speed on this section of the A44 but almost all of the accidents are caused by the usual suspects pulling out in front of cars that aren't speeding.
And rather than talking about speeding and cameras the conversation we really need to have around here is how to resolve the problem of the thick, the medicated and the elderly being allowed to drive.
Between lockdowns, everyone was speeding on that road, it was like being back in the 90s non of the problem car operators were on the roads.
DonkeyApple said:
Generally these incidents aren't anything to do with the victims speeding on the A44 but :snip: people who can't work out how to use a junction.
Average speed cameras there won't solve a damn thing. The issue is the junction location/design, NOT people exceeding the posted limit.
...but hey, why let that get in the way of a witch hunt...
Edited by havoc on Monday 25th July 11:22
DonkeyApple said:
Mr Spoon said:
This is a general issue across the driving populous. It is a shame that so many struggle with some basic concepts.
It is but there is no solution in terms of fixing those people. Other than costing them out of cars the only option is to make changes to the roads themselves. Having grown up in central London it's been a real shock to see just how appalling the standard of driving is out in places like the Cotswolds. People are simply half asleep or fundamentally retarded.
It's interesting that the article posted sees the solution as being average speed cameras when very few of the incidents are caused by people on the A44 actually speeding. But almost everytime caused by someone crawling out of a side road in front of oncoming traffic.
It's like the fork junction a couple of miles away at Troopers Lodge. Someone will die there every year and it's specifically because a low functioner will drive head on into an oncoming HGV that is obeying the speed limit or a low functioner pulls out of the Stow road in front of someone on the A44 who's obeying the speed limit.
It's fundamentally old people blaming bikers and supercars when it's then pulling out from junctions while on drugs.
What we used to call the Mogadon Stare years ago in London seems epidemic out here. It used to be housewives on the school run who'd be looking but not seeing as if loaded up on anti-depressants but out here I've had old folk sitting at junctions and they will be looking directly at you as you approach, they've seen you, they're waiting and then when you're barely 100 yards away they suddenly start pulling out and you only see them coming round to reality when your mainbeam and horn wakes them up.
But chubby folk cutting blind bends is equally baffling. Why do they want all the road? Are they confusing the tarmac with an all you can eat buffet? Or are they just really thick which is why they can't work out when to stop eating?
The other intriguing difference between here and London is that in London the cars that crash on their own on a Friday or Saturday night are usually driven by kids driving above the speed limit but out here it seems to be over 50s who just seemingly and randomly forget how a corner works.
But my folks live out near Stroud and if you think the Cotswolds is bad it pales compared to driving as you get around there!!
I agree about the low standard of driving in that ares. Roundabouts seem to confuse many drivers!
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