Discussion
Just watching the Tonight programme on ITV and they had an Ex Met officer who had started a private investigations and security company called TM Eye. Nothing surprising about that plenty of ex coppers go into security or health and safety once they retire.
However it showed body cam footage of one of his employees walking up to someone in a public street they suspected of being a shoplifter and sticking handcuffs on them and detaining them. Now I understand anyone can make a citizens arrest and call the police but having worked in retail management with a lot of security guards over a decade ago now. The advice was to only stop a person inside the premises if they actually witnessed the offender putting something in a bag and attempting to leave the store. They were told to not detain the person outside even if they suspected them but to make a note of it and check CCTV and then inform the police. Who made a note but never came out, even when someone nicked a £3000 lawnmower.
Seems like this firm could be opening a big can of worms.
However it showed body cam footage of one of his employees walking up to someone in a public street they suspected of being a shoplifter and sticking handcuffs on them and detaining them. Now I understand anyone can make a citizens arrest and call the police but having worked in retail management with a lot of security guards over a decade ago now. The advice was to only stop a person inside the premises if they actually witnessed the offender putting something in a bag and attempting to leave the store. They were told to not detain the person outside even if they suspected them but to make a note of it and check CCTV and then inform the police. Who made a note but never came out, even when someone nicked a £3000 lawnmower.
Seems like this firm could be opening a big can of worms.
Edited by sutoka on Friday 12th August 03:29
Retail security staff should follow ASCONE, and as you say they need to see the 'offender' take the item, conceal it and then try to leave without payment. They are also supposed to have observed all stages without losing sight of the individual
They can of course stop someone if the barrier alarms go off when someone try's to exit
They can of course stop someone if the barrier alarms go off when someone try's to exit
I did SIA security training years ago delivered by and ex copper, focus was on door supervisor but it’s the course above security guarding and similar with just the licensing act bits on top.
His advice was if your not a serving officer it’s not advisable to arrest of detain people, if your working an area ask the police what they would like you to do.
Unless there was a serious assault he said don’t detain people as your risking getting sued as arresting someone outside of the police is a very serious action, he said for weapons and drugs ask your local police but most likely keep and had over to police and kick the people out not much point arresting people.
His advice was if your not a serving officer it’s not advisable to arrest of detain people, if your working an area ask the police what they would like you to do.
Unless there was a serious assault he said don’t detain people as your risking getting sued as arresting someone outside of the police is a very serious action, he said for weapons and drugs ask your local police but most likely keep and had over to police and kick the people out not much point arresting people.
What's legally permissible & store policy for guards, aren't necessarily the same thing. The store policy will often be quite conservative compared to what the law allows (for non-Police) in order to save them or their employees from potential harm, embarrassment or action.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 12th August 16:11
vonhosen said:
What's legally permissible & store policy for guards, aren't necessarily the same thing. The store policy will often be quite conservative compared to what the law allows (for non-Police) in order to save them or their employees from potential harm, embarrassment or action.
That’s absolutely trueEdited by vonhosen on Friday 12th August 16:11
There are a number of retailers that operate a no stop policy
So despite paying for SIA licensed staff to deter theft, those staff are instructed never to stop or chase.
One such retailer suffers regular losses from ‘Grab and run’ thefts..
These are mainly from known shop lifting gangs
I know a fella who works in an M&S food only place. He says they regularly receive visits from shoplifters who'll happily clear a shelf of expensive meat or whtever and stroll out unhindered. I guess most retailers deem the pilferage costs to be lower than then expense of proper, proactive security.
Railways are the same, no chasing, detaining or anything else. As with so much in our society, those who choose to obey the law do so, and those who don't will usually get away with it, certainly where minor stuff is concerned.
That being said, I don't like the idea of heavyhanded private thug types patrolling our streets. That's an awfully slippery slope.
Railways are the same, no chasing, detaining or anything else. As with so much in our society, those who choose to obey the law do so, and those who don't will usually get away with it, certainly where minor stuff is concerned.
That being said, I don't like the idea of heavyhanded private thug types patrolling our streets. That's an awfully slippery slope.
Technically speaking, the offence is complete when the suspect conceals the item. The whole ASCONE is to really bolster the fact they weren't going to pay. Anyone can use handcuffs BUT you better make sure you have had plenty of training to use them and liability insurance.
If the barrier alarm goes off, you can ask someone to stop to check any items for security tags. They don't have to stop and they don't have to show you anything but would probably be most grateful if a tag was left on the item by mistake.
If the barrier alarm goes off, you can ask someone to stop to check any items for security tags. They don't have to stop and they don't have to show you anything but would probably be most grateful if a tag was left on the item by mistake.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 15th August 19:37
pocketspring said:
Technically speaking, the offence is complete when the suspect conceals the item. The whole ASCONE is to really bolster the fact they weren't going to pay. Anyone can use handcuffs BUT you better make sure you have had plenty of training to use them and liability insurance.
If the barrier alarm goes off, you can ask someone to stop to check any items for security tags. They don't have to stop and they don't have to show you anything but would probably be most grateful if a tag was left on the item by mistake.
Went over to an ASDA in a let's just say, a rougher part of town. First time I've been in it and they have gone to town on security. First thing I noticed is the barrier goes off if you go out the entrance. They have about 3-4 security togged up like coppers in stab vests etc. Every aisle has cameras and mirrors I the corner. Every shelf has tickets saying ' shoplifters will be prosecuted' and CCTV in operation' Security tags on everything over I'd say a fiver. Then you get to the checkout and they have a massive sign, then at the checkout a big screen recording your face, then your face on the self pay till then a 'have you scanned all your items' prompt. I also suspect they have a button on the security lectern so they can manually set it off and check peoples receipts.If the barrier alarm goes off, you can ask someone to stop to check any items for security tags. They don't have to stop and they don't have to show you anything but would probably be most grateful if a tag was left on the item by mistake.
Edited by pocketspring on Monday 15th August 19:37
Less than a mile away in Sainsburys and M&S they have one security guard sitting on the CCTV station and not much else.
When I worked in Sainsburys years ago they had one security guard on the floor and two that sat in a room out the back, they never left the station and from memory they spent more time zooming in on attractive ladies than catching any thieves. I never saw anyone challenged or brought in the back to the 'holding' area. The police turned up once a month to collect some counterfeit cash but never got any CCTV as they only kept it for 3 weeks.
Southerner said:
What an utterly depressing reality it is when you have to essentially 'go private' to get local policing done 
Wait till you see why he's no longer working for the Methttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35651565
Oakey said:
Wait till you see why he's no longer working for the Met
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35651565
That was really interesting to read. Corrupt officers in the Met?! Never! Wonder if it's the same lot who were blocking the pub car park axe murder? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35651565
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