Car Price increased after deposit taken
Discussion
I have a Landrover on order. £2k deposit paid in November 2021, estimated delivery 6-9 months. Actual delivery due in November 2022. They recently informed me that the price has increased by around £5000 (approx 7%) due to a change in model year and pricing structure. They refuse to honour the original price citing a term in their contract.
Whilst the dealership included a clause within the contract stating they reserve the right to adjust prices, I am not convinced the term is legally 'fair' anymore, because the manufacturer has artificially extended the build lead time of my vehicle I dont believe they are acting in good faith - and not acting in good faith renders the term unfair.
I struggle to believe consumers aren't protected against this practice of taking deposits based on a given price (and likely leveraging that deposit), but indefinitely delaying the delivery of the vehicle and raising prices as they go..
Based on this clause, they could in theory delay the delivery infinitely, retaining my deposit and increasing the prices to the point that they don't actually ever need to deliver any vehicles.
Any contract lawyers with a view on this?
Whilst the dealership included a clause within the contract stating they reserve the right to adjust prices, I am not convinced the term is legally 'fair' anymore, because the manufacturer has artificially extended the build lead time of my vehicle I dont believe they are acting in good faith - and not acting in good faith renders the term unfair.
I struggle to believe consumers aren't protected against this practice of taking deposits based on a given price (and likely leveraging that deposit), but indefinitely delaying the delivery of the vehicle and raising prices as they go..
Based on this clause, they could in theory delay the delivery infinitely, retaining my deposit and increasing the prices to the point that they don't actually ever need to deliver any vehicles.
Any contract lawyers with a view on this?
I believe it is legal to adjust the price due to a manufacturer price rise.
Many people will probably say they have ordered cars in the past and had their original price held even after a price rise, but this will be down to goodwill of the dealer.
One thing is for sure here, you have the right to cancel and have your deposit fully refunded.
Many people will probably say they have ordered cars in the past and had their original price held even after a price rise, but this will be down to goodwill of the dealer.
One thing is for sure here, you have the right to cancel and have your deposit fully refunded.
I think it comes down to a "service vs legality" issue, in as much as a dealer concerned primarily with providing good customer service will absorb the cost even though it's in the contract that you are liable for any price increases. A dealer concerned purely with money will fall to the letter of the contract and how you feel about it be damned.
If you want to make an issue out of it you'll have a hell of a job proving whether or not they're acting in bad faith. Might be worth asking if you can have any other perks, maybe an extended service plan or something, included if you pay the full price. Either that or simply pull the plug on the deal and cut your losses.
If you want to make an issue out of it you'll have a hell of a job proving whether or not they're acting in bad faith. Might be worth asking if you can have any other perks, maybe an extended service plan or something, included if you pay the full price. Either that or simply pull the plug on the deal and cut your losses.
XplusYplusZ said:
I have a Landrover on order. £2k deposit paid in November 2021, estimated delivery 6-9 months. Actual delivery due in November 2022. They recently informed me that the price has increased by around £5000 (approx 7%) due to a change in model year and pricing structure. They refuse to honour the original price citing a term in their contract.
Whilst the dealership included a clause within the contract stating they reserve the right to adjust prices, I am not convinced the term is legally 'fair' anymore, because the manufacturer has artificially extended the build lead time of my vehicle I dont believe they are acting in good faith - and not acting in good faith renders the term unfair.
I struggle to believe consumers aren't protected against this practice of taking deposits based on a given price (and likely leveraging that deposit), but indefinitely delaying the delivery of the vehicle and raising prices as they go..
Based on this clause, they could in theory delay the delivery infinitely, retaining my deposit and increasing the prices to the point that they don't actually ever need to deliver any vehicles.
Any contract lawyers with a view on this?
What does the order form state that you signed?Whilst the dealership included a clause within the contract stating they reserve the right to adjust prices, I am not convinced the term is legally 'fair' anymore, because the manufacturer has artificially extended the build lead time of my vehicle I dont believe they are acting in good faith - and not acting in good faith renders the term unfair.
I struggle to believe consumers aren't protected against this practice of taking deposits based on a given price (and likely leveraging that deposit), but indefinitely delaying the delivery of the vehicle and raising prices as they go..
Based on this clause, they could in theory delay the delivery infinitely, retaining my deposit and increasing the prices to the point that they don't actually ever need to deliver any vehicles.
Any contract lawyers with a view on this?
Thanks for the feedback so far.
To be clear, the contract I signed does indeed have a clause allowing the Dealer to change prices before delivery. It states this is usually for changes in road tax, VAT.
The argument I'd like to make is that this particular clause is an unfair term due to the extended lead times they've imposed on my vehicle build. As I understand it, even if the contract is signed with a term in it, if the term is unfair, it is null and void.
I suspect the burden of proof is where my argument may fall over. Trying to prove that my vehicle was deliberately deprioritised could be difficult/impossible - Unless the manufacturer is forced to disclose the logic and explanation for why my vehicle waited so long to be built.
I do also wonder what financial laws might be in place, relating to the payment and leveraging of my deposit, if I cancel and no actual vehicle is delivered.
There are also questions related to my specific model being discontinued, and JLR have given me a 'price' for the discontinued model, without actually publishing it anywhere because it was discontinued...
All of it is quite messy - I'm not convinced they completely understand their own liabilities..
To be clear, the contract I signed does indeed have a clause allowing the Dealer to change prices before delivery. It states this is usually for changes in road tax, VAT.
The argument I'd like to make is that this particular clause is an unfair term due to the extended lead times they've imposed on my vehicle build. As I understand it, even if the contract is signed with a term in it, if the term is unfair, it is null and void.
I suspect the burden of proof is where my argument may fall over. Trying to prove that my vehicle was deliberately deprioritised could be difficult/impossible - Unless the manufacturer is forced to disclose the logic and explanation for why my vehicle waited so long to be built.
I do also wonder what financial laws might be in place, relating to the payment and leveraging of my deposit, if I cancel and no actual vehicle is delivered.
There are also questions related to my specific model being discontinued, and JLR have given me a 'price' for the discontinued model, without actually publishing it anywhere because it was discontinued...
All of it is quite messy - I'm not convinced they completely understand their own liabilities..
XplusYplusZ said:
Thanks for the feedback so far.
To be clear, the contract I signed does indeed have a clause allowing the Dealer to change prices before delivery. It states this is usually for changes in road tax, VAT.
The argument I'd like to make is that this particular clause is an unfair term due to the extended lead times they've imposed on my vehicle build. As I understand it, even if the contract is signed with a term in it, if the term is unfair, it is null and void.
I suspect the burden of proof is where my argument may fall over. Trying to prove that my vehicle was deliberately deprioritised could be difficult/impossible - Unless the manufacturer is forced to disclose the logic and explanation for why my vehicle waited so long to be built.
I do also wonder what financial laws might be in place, relating to the payment and leveraging of my deposit, if I cancel and no actual vehicle is delivered.
There are also questions related to my specific model being discontinued, and JLR have given me a 'price' for the discontinued model, without actually publishing it anywhere because it was discontinued...
All of it is quite messy - I'm not convinced they completely understand their own liabilities..
I think that you are reading too much into the situation.To be clear, the contract I signed does indeed have a clause allowing the Dealer to change prices before delivery. It states this is usually for changes in road tax, VAT.
The argument I'd like to make is that this particular clause is an unfair term due to the extended lead times they've imposed on my vehicle build. As I understand it, even if the contract is signed with a term in it, if the term is unfair, it is null and void.
I suspect the burden of proof is where my argument may fall over. Trying to prove that my vehicle was deliberately deprioritised could be difficult/impossible - Unless the manufacturer is forced to disclose the logic and explanation for why my vehicle waited so long to be built.
I do also wonder what financial laws might be in place, relating to the payment and leveraging of my deposit, if I cancel and no actual vehicle is delivered.
There are also questions related to my specific model being discontinued, and JLR have given me a 'price' for the discontinued model, without actually publishing it anywhere because it was discontinued...
All of it is quite messy - I'm not convinced they completely understand their own liabilities..
I also don't think that JLR have changed their business model specifically to keep a hold of your deposit a while longer, whilst refusing to deliver your car, just so that they can leverage your deposit (whatever you think that this means).
There is a world shortage of microchips for auto components, resulting in long manufacturing delays, changes in specification, unavailable options / components, etc.
Coupled with a worldwide increase in overall costs, inflation, etc, all that has simply happened is that the price of the car that you ordered 6-9 months ago has now increased, and JLR want to pass that cost onto you, as per the contract provisions that you signed up to.
When I bought my first Mustang back in 2017, I had to wait 9 months for delivery due to a long factory order waiting list, coupled with a long shipping time from the USA. Fortunately Ford kept the price the same as at the time of placing the order.
If we were in more normal times, I would have expected JLR to likewise honour your order price, and I suspect that the delivery time would have been a lot quicker than 6-9 months that you are now experiencing.
Unfortunately for you, we are no longer in normal times, and it seems that JLR are not willing to take a hit on costs, if they can very easily sell your car to somebody else, who would be willing to pay the higher asking price if you decide to not proceed.
As long as you get your full deposit back, I don't think that JLR have done anything unlawful or illegal, as you seem to be suggesting.
Ron240 said:
GranpaB said:
What does the order form state that you signed?
He already said (and you quoted) that there is "a clause within the contract stating they reserve the right to adjust prices"
Thats that then i suppose.
Must admit some dealers will still honour order prices but i think that comes from the manufacturers giving dealers the opportunity to select what customers benefit.
A £2k deposit is not like you've paid a big slice of the price in advance.
you're talking about 'leveraging the deposit' which means what exactly, you're looking at the interest you could have earned with it?
ISTM that when you put a deposit on something, either the price is fixed at that point, or it isn't. You knew that it wasn't?
When is the last possible moment to walk away?
You can always offer them a lesser sum for it.
you're talking about 'leveraging the deposit' which means what exactly, you're looking at the interest you could have earned with it?
ISTM that when you put a deposit on something, either the price is fixed at that point, or it isn't. You knew that it wasn't?
When is the last possible moment to walk away?
You can always offer them a lesser sum for it.
XplusYplusZ said:
I do also wonder what financial laws might be in place, relating to the payment and leveraging of my deposit, if I cancel and no actual vehicle is delivered.
The original contract has significantly changed, ie. the price you originally agreed to pay has increased by £5k.You have the right to cancel and your deposit returned in full.
Thanks Mandat, useful points and challenges.
The reason I raise this is not that they'll be making a lot of money on this, but I want to know if profiting on the back of a false/impossible to achieve promise is legal. (either it was never possible to deliver my vehicle in the timeframe quoted, or they decided not to deliver it in time) - either way, they've been able to make some money through incompetence or deliberate misdirection.
But it wasn't. Instead, JLR generated more business than they can handle, and then chose to push my cheaper vehicle into a later, more expensive model year.
I'm not saying what they have done is unlawful, or illegal. I believe one of their clauses is unfair, and therefore not applicable. I want to pay what I agreed to pay. I don't want to pay more for the same car, because they decided to deprioritise me.
Mandat said:
I also don't think that JLR have changed their business model specifically to keep a hold of your deposit a while longer, whilst refusing to deliver your car, just so that they can leverage your deposit (whatever you think that this means).
By 'leveraging' I mean investing it and making my money work for them whilst I wait indefinitely for my vehicle.The reason I raise this is not that they'll be making a lot of money on this, but I want to know if profiting on the back of a false/impossible to achieve promise is legal. (either it was never possible to deliver my vehicle in the timeframe quoted, or they decided not to deliver it in time) - either way, they've been able to make some money through incompetence or deliberate misdirection.
Mandat said:
Coupled with a worldwide increase in overall costs, inflation, etc, all that has simply happened is that the price of the car that you ordered 6-9 months ago has now increased, and JLR want to pass that cost onto you, as per the contract provisions that you signed up to.
If we were in more normal times, I would have expected JLR to likewise honour your order price, and I suspect that the delivery time would have been a lot quicker than 6-9 months that you are now experiencing.
I think we're all well aware of the challenges in global supply chains. If my vehicle had been delivered within the published 6-9 month timeframe, it would have fallen within the originally contracted model year and pricing structure. I'd have been very happy.If we were in more normal times, I would have expected JLR to likewise honour your order price, and I suspect that the delivery time would have been a lot quicker than 6-9 months that you are now experiencing.
But it wasn't. Instead, JLR generated more business than they can handle, and then chose to push my cheaper vehicle into a later, more expensive model year.
Mandat said:
Unfortunately for you, we are no longer in normal times, and it seems that JLR are not willing to take a hit on costs, if they can very easily sell your car to somebody else, who would be willing to pay the higher asking price if you decide to not proceed.
As long as you get your full deposit back, I don't think that JLR have done anything unlawful or illegal, as you seem to be suggesting.
Yes, they likely could. But that doesn't sound like 'acting in good faith' on our contract, does it!?As long as you get your full deposit back, I don't think that JLR have done anything unlawful or illegal, as you seem to be suggesting.
I'm not saying what they have done is unlawful, or illegal. I believe one of their clauses is unfair, and therefore not applicable. I want to pay what I agreed to pay. I don't want to pay more for the same car, because they decided to deprioritise me.
Cold said:
It might be worth approaching the dealership to see if they can fiddle around with the finance payments to take some of the sting out of the price increase.
Another annoyance to this (didn't want to overcomplicate the main point), is that through consistent incompetence, the dealer fumbled the 2 week grace period to change the order. They told me my car had a build slot, they confirmed my configuration was being honoured... they neglected to mention the 7% price hike.I only discovered the price increase after the build had been locked and I could no longer mitigate the cost increases (eg, removing air suspension, and some other options). The dealer was real slimey and a bit of a coward, I suspect but can't prove he knew..
I have, however, tweaked the financing as you suggested - less annual mileage knocked a bit off..
The dealers are doing F-all to compensate though, putting all the blame on the manufacturer, and knowing full well they can sell on my slot in an instant if I do bail... Not a free floor mat in sight..
I know I'm clutching at straws a little.
I guess the reason I am really pissed off and trying to fight this is that cancelling and changing approach now means opting for a second hand alternative at roughly the same price as the one on order.
Jumping into a second hand X5, Disco or Defender will cost me pretty much the same as the brand new one, and I'll lose a year or two of warranty. (and I'll be buggered if I'm going to run a LR without warranty!)
The dealers know this, and they're taking advantage.
It feels a little like gouging..
I guess the reason I am really pissed off and trying to fight this is that cancelling and changing approach now means opting for a second hand alternative at roughly the same price as the one on order.
Jumping into a second hand X5, Disco or Defender will cost me pretty much the same as the brand new one, and I'll lose a year or two of warranty. (and I'll be buggered if I'm going to run a LR without warranty!)
The dealers know this, and they're taking advantage.
It feels a little like gouging..
There's been a few of these JLR order-related threads recently. From the version of the contract I managed to take a look at it makes it abundantly clear, pretty much on line 1, that when you pay your deposit you are not fixing the price in any way, rather your deposit effectively gives you the option to order and buy the car at such time as they can build the thing and at the prevailing price at that time. If following a price increase your choices were to either lose your deposit or pay whatever price they wanted then that would undoubtedly be an unfair term. However as you can just take your deposit back it's not. Any talk of JLR deliberately going slow in order to chisel a few more quid out of you is sailing dangerously close to tin foil millinery - banish such thoughts from your head.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff