Another private parking ticket thread

[Jonny Wishbone]

Hello good people. Another PCN thread. Here’s the setup.

I work in a building which is occupied by a doctors surgery on the ground floor and a dentist on the first floor. We share a covered car park behind the building with two separate entrances; the car park is split such that one entrance is designated for the dentists and their punters and the other for the doctors and theirs. I am a leaseholder of the doctor’s portion of the building and car park and I have my own designated space with my name on it. A couple of years ago, the dentists got peeved at GP patients parking on their side so they employed a company to police parking in their car park. It’s all signposted correctly as far as I’m aware. The dentists’ patients submit their registration at reception and get to park there and anybody else gets ticketed.

I have now received a PCN from Civil Enforcement, alleging that I parked in the dentists’ car park from 9:22am to 10:55am on 5/9/22. Now though I don’t recall the specific day in question I know with absolute certainty I didn’t park there, because I never park there as I have no reason to, given I have my own space in my car park which is literally 10m away from the dentists’ car park. I was also doing home visits that morning, which I could probably technically prove but I’m not going to start getting patients involved asking them to corroborate my whereabouts.

I suspect the PCN has been triggered by my doing a three-point turn and reversing over the threshold of their car park. If I’m doing a quick pit stop at the surgery I park at the rear entrance instead of in my space as it’s quicker and the back door is opposite the entrance to the dentists’ car park. I’ve done this a few times in the past without a problem. I wonder if I reversed far enough in to be caught by one of their cameras on this occasion, though this doesn’t explain why they think I entered and departed the car park 90 minutes apart.

Anyway, I’ve fired off a response to CE which is basically the Shaggy Defence because I have no physical proof I wasn’t there. I’ve also asked them to provide the evidence they claim they have, which can only be at best a still shot of my car reversing into the entrance of the car park. My questions are firstly, are CE in any way shape or form reasonable to deal with or is this going to be a ball ache? Secondly, is there any realm in which I can reasonably be expected to pay a PCN for simply momentarily encroaching into a private car park?

TIA.

[sospan]

Get he dentist to cancel the ticket. Far easier than you contesting the ticket with the parking company.

[Jonny Wishbone]

Theoretically true and I will swing past them next week. However, based on the testimony of numerous irked punters, their default position is not to get involved.

[Sebring440]

Jonny Wishbone said:

their default position is not to get involved.

Well, get them involved. Surely that was your first port of call before posting on a motoring forum?

[Jonny Wishbone]

Sebring440 said:

Jonny Wishbone said:

their default position is not to get involved.

Well, get them involved. Surely that was your first port of call before posting on a motoring forum?

No since I received the notice this morning and they’re not open til Tuesday.

Posting on a motoring forum and contacting them are not mutually exclusive actions.

[Cat]

Sebring440 said:

Jonny Wishbone said:

their default position is not to get involved.

Well, get them involved. Surely that was your first port of call before posting on a motoring forum?

I suspect doing this will be like pulling teeth.

Cat

[Jonny Wishbone]

On reflection I might call them. I hear their lines open briefly at 2:30.

[Cat]

Best be braced for them giving you the brush off.

Cat

[Jonny Wishbone]

Very incisive comment. Perhaps your crowning achievement?

(I’ll get my coat now, I need to get out of the house).

[Cat]

Sorry, I was just filling time. I'll extract myself from this thread by wishing you good luck in getting to the root of the problem.

Cat

[BertBert]

I think you've got far-canal-all chance with this

[LastPoster]

Sebring440 said:

Jonny Wishbone said:

their default position is not to get involved.

Well, get them involved. Surely that was your first port of call before posting on a motoring forum?

I wonder about the legal position of this.

Based on a bit of previous experience (managing the maintenance aspects of some retail parks), the landowner engages in contract with the PPC; who then takes on all costs of signage, cameras, admin etc and in return keeps all revenue from tickets issued. If I were the PPC, then I would expect the landowner to have absolutely no ability to take away my revenue by deciding if tickets were to be paid or not. The only route would be the formal appeal process.

Anyone know if this is correct?

[blingybongy]

I have time on my hands so I'd tell them to get fked and I'd see them in court.

[MustangGT]

Jonny Wishbone said:

On reflection I might call them. I hear their lines open briefly at 2:30.

Very good

[anonymous-user]

LastPoster said:

Sebring440 said:

Jonny Wishbone said:

their default position is not to get involved.

Well, get them involved. Surely that was your first port of call before posting on a motoring forum?

I wonder about the legal position of this.

Based on a bit of previous experience (managing the maintenance aspects of some retail parks), the landowner engages in contract with the PPC; who then takes on all costs of signage, cameras, admin etc and in return keeps all revenue from tickets issued. If I were the PPC, then I would expect the landowner to have absolutely no ability to take away my revenue by deciding if tickets were to be paid or not. The only route would be the formal appeal process.

Anyone know if this is correct?

I know it is (was) incorrect as I got a Penalty Notice cancelled for someone by a motorway services operator who employed a PPC.

[mgtony]

Afraid I can't offer you any words of wisdom..

[SydneyBridge]

Could you have done three point turns twice, once at 9.22 and then again at 10.55?

[Jonny Wishbone]

SydneyBridge said:

Could you have done three point turns twice, once at 9.22 and then again at 10.55?

I don’t think so but it’s possible. It’s the only way that the PCN makes any sense (if you ignore the fact that reversing into a car park would be deeply weird). If the only cameras are at the entrance then they still can’t prove I parked there, but contesting it (assuming it can’t be cancelled by the dental practice) would then become a giant hassle. Which is one reason I’m curious if simply crossing the threshold of the car park is considered in breach of the T’s & C’s, which I guess means I need to read them.

[VSKeith]

Jonny Wishbone said:

SydneyBridge said:

Could you have done three point turns twice, once at 9.22 and then again at 10.55?

I don’t think so but it’s possible. It’s the only way that the PCN makes any sense (if you ignore the fact that reversing into a car park would be deeply weird). If the only cameras are at the entrance then they still can’t prove I parked there, but contesting it (assuming it can’t be cancelled by the dental practice) would then become a giant hassle. Which is one reason I’m curious if simply crossing the threshold of the car park is considered in breach of the T’s & C’s, which I guess means I need to read them.

I'm no expert on private parking law, but I'm fairly sure entering and leaving in short order isn't chargeable.

Good luck with it

[Plymo]

IIRC there has to be a time allowed for someone to enter a car park, read the T&C's and decide they don't accept them, and leave.

Is there any CCTV covering the area? It would be easy enough to show that between the stated times you were not parked there, and therefore the system must have picked up your plate in error...