Coming to bridge near you!

[Pica-Pica]

An officer with a hand held camera, motorcycle parked nearby. Seemingly more frequent lately. This was when I was driving over a bridge on the back roads that now crosses a new, by-pass. It's a 2+1 single carriageway, which many people mistake as a dual carriageway with regards speed limits. I have read in local papers a few people being caught like that. Nothing new, just more frequent lately. I remember a few being caught on the M6 Toll Road being caught this way.

[E-bmw]

1. What are we supposed to be looking at?

2. Anyone who thinks that is a dual-carriageway I would call an idiot.

[Pica-Pica]

E-bmw said:

1. What are we supposed to be looking at?

2. Anyone who thinks that is a dual-carriageway I would call an idiot.

The single carriageway is below the 'vantage point'. The traffic can get quite a shift on. The motorcyclists copper was on the bridge with a speed camera.

[SAS Tom]

That’s nothing new is it? We’ve all seen traffic cars and camera vans parked on bridges.

[ARH]

The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.

I can only assume this is why the courses exist

[markymarkthree]

Having done quite a few SACs. Would i be correct in saying that, both roads in the pic are probably 60mph ? Assuming there are no signs out of sight saying otherwise.

[Mammasaid]

ARH said:

The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.

Duel carriageway




Dual carriageway



HTH

[Simpo Two]

Turkey shoot. Ker-ching. That's why he was there.

The A14 (a dual carriageway) has this all the time.

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 7th October 09:48

[Sheepshanks]

I got caught like this on a summer evening 20yrs ago. Cop, not wearing high viz, was offset to the left on a bridge, with trees behind him and the sun behind those - so he was very difficult to spot until too close. I was bowling along at 85 (70 limit).

I was always do 70ish on that road now, and sit there while pretty well everyone else zooms past while I tutt at them.

[toobusy]

Simpo Two said:

Turkey shoot. Ker-ching. That's why he was there.

The A14 (a dual carriageway) has this all the time.

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 7th October 09:48

Yup, especially near the M6 end, the curve in the road hides them.

[Nothingtoseehere]

ARH said:

The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.

I can only assume this is why the courses exist

It doesn't have a physical barrier between oncoming lanes so it's not a dual carriageway.

[E-bmw]

Nothingtoseehere said:

ARH said:

The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.

I can only assume this is why the courses exist

It doesn't have a physical barrier between oncoming lanes so it's not a dual carriageway.

Correct, it is simple.

Dual - two

Carriageway - road

If they aren't fully physically separated by a minimum raised central reservation/barrier then it is not one.

[FiF]

E-bmw said:

Nothingtoseehere said:

ARH said:

The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.

I can only assume this is why the courses exist

It doesn't have a physical barrier between oncoming lanes so it's not a dual carriageway.

Correct, it is simple.

Dual - two

Carriageway - road

If they aren't fully physically separated by a minimum raised central reservation/barrier then it is not one.

Technically the central reservation is defined as a permanent construction or other land.

Thus a strip of grass separating two carriageways could qualify. I would suggest such situations are increasingly rare.

Note a strip of tarmac in the centre of the road liberally covered with paint makings does not constitute other land nor a permanent construction.

[Vsix and Vtec]

toobusy said:

Simpo Two said:

Turkey shoot. Ker-ching. That's why he was there.

The A14 (a dual carriageway) has this all the time.

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 7th October 09:48

Yup, especially near the M6 end, the curve in the road hides them.

Also the A11 leading up to the A14, Cambs and Suffolk Police have a proper hard-on for speed cameras

[The Gauge]

Mammasaid said:

Duel carriageway

You posted that photo joust in time before I was going to

[Steve-B]

TVP do this all the time on the bridge over the M40 between J2 <-> J3.
Big cashpoint game for them in a stretch that has had its fair share of incidents...

[Nothingtoseehere]

FiF said:

E-bmw said:

Nothingtoseehere said:

ARH said:

The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.

I can only assume this is why the courses exist

It doesn't have a physical barrier between oncoming lanes so it's not a dual carriageway.

Correct, it is simple.

Dual - two

Carriageway - road

If they aren't fully physically separated by a minimum raised central reservation/barrier then it is not one.

Technically the central reservation is defined as a permanent construction or other land.

Thus a strip of grass separating two carriageways could qualify. I would suggest such situations are increasingly rare.

Note a strip of tarmac in the centre of the road liberally covered with paint makings does not constitute other land nor a permanent construction.

Correct. I found my SAC useful in refreshing my memory of such things...

[BertBert]

FiF said:

Technically the central reservation is defined as a permanent construction or other land.

Thus a strip of grass separating two carriageways could qualify. I would suggest such situations are increasingly rare.

Note a strip of tarmac in the centre of the road liberally covered with paint makings does not constitute other land nor a permanent construction.

It's interesting that the definition of dual carriageway is actually quite obscure as to what qualifies as "other land", a pretty tricky phrase to actually define the meaning of.

Looking on the internet, the use of the phrase "central reservation" is used not "other land", coming from RTA 1984...

“dual-carriageway road” means a road part of which consists of a central reservation to separate a carriageway to be used by vehicles proceeding in one direction from a carriageway to be used by vehicles proceeding in the opposite direction;

What is and what is not a central reservation is not defined as far as I can see.

[Super Sonic]

Mammasaid said:

Duel carriageway




Dual carriageway



HTH

TBF it's an easy mistake to make as they both have a separating barrier down the middle.

[paul_c123]

I've always used the definition "can a ball roll from one carriageway to another?".

Continuous tarmac but with a barrier (eg armco, concrete or similar).......................................................YES
Same continuous tarmac with loads of paint in the middle (no matter how wide the centre bit is)............NO
Tarmac but with some limp raised kerb area in the middle, no actual barrier............................................YES
2 bits of tarmac with a grass strip down the middle...................................................................................DEPENDS IF THE GRASS STRIP WOULD STOP A BALL, HOW BIG THE BALL IS, ETC

Of course its not a legal definition, but its a good ready reckoner. Signage may help too, but I don't believe it can legally define if its single or dual.

ETA I don't believe a grass strip alone, would count: there are many roads with grass in the middle and they are certainly not dual carriageways:

Edited by paul_c123 on Tuesday 7th October 13:36