Who's fault would it have been?
Discussion
This morning was driving on to the Mancunian way in Manchester.
Its a 30 and I was very close to that speed.
Drove up the on ramp, got on to the Mancunian way, checked my mirror, did the over shoulder blind spot check, a good 5 car lengths between me and the fiesta behind, indicator on, moves to middle lane which really the 1st lane as its a combined on/of ram and I'm going straight on.
I have 90% completed my move into the lane when.
When see a black Volvo going at warp speed coming past in the outside lane, the Blind spot monitor goes off crazy, did not know I had 2 levels until today.
Volvo has his left indicator on, he had been planning a high speed cutting across 2 lane in front of the the fiesta so he could take the of ramp.
Only there was red Vitara now in his way.
He slams on the brakes real hard and dives between the gap.
If had been going any faster than he was he could have had a very hard time not crashing into me.
So who fault would it have been
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.471451,-2.2394148,...
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.471679,-2.2381547,...
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4721249,-2.2351854...
Its a 30 and I was very close to that speed.
Drove up the on ramp, got on to the Mancunian way, checked my mirror, did the over shoulder blind spot check, a good 5 car lengths between me and the fiesta behind, indicator on, moves to middle lane which really the 1st lane as its a combined on/of ram and I'm going straight on.
I have 90% completed my move into the lane when.
When see a black Volvo going at warp speed coming past in the outside lane, the Blind spot monitor goes off crazy, did not know I had 2 levels until today.
Volvo has his left indicator on, he had been planning a high speed cutting across 2 lane in front of the the fiesta so he could take the of ramp.
Only there was red Vitara now in his way.
He slams on the brakes real hard and dives between the gap.
If had been going any faster than he was he could have had a very hard time not crashing into me.
So who fault would it have been
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.471451,-2.2394148,...
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.471679,-2.2381547,...
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4721249,-2.2351854...
Edited by cirian75 on Friday 20th March 08:00
50:50. You both should have seen the other was aiming for that place on the road, and you both could have taken avoiding action (you staying in the on/off lane OR him staying in the outside lane would have avoided a crash).
Noted he was speeding. Unless he was doing an absolutely mental speed where he was well outside any reasonable range to check before the lane change then that's irrelevant.
A friend of mine rear-ended someone who changed lanes under his nose, who started with the "you must have been speeding" argument. He was (nothing stupid, typical DC speed) and it was ignored. The "didn't look properly and changed lanes into the path of a vehicle" part was more important as a contribution to the crash.
Noted he was speeding. Unless he was doing an absolutely mental speed where he was well outside any reasonable range to check before the lane change then that's irrelevant.
A friend of mine rear-ended someone who changed lanes under his nose, who started with the "you must have been speeding" argument. He was (nothing stupid, typical DC speed) and it was ignored. The "didn't look properly and changed lanes into the path of a vehicle" part was more important as a contribution to the crash.
Personally, I'd have read the situation a bit better, worked out the speed of the black Volvo and matched it perfectly, forcing the driver to go straight on.
Would that have been good driving? Of course not, but now we're all forced to drive everywhere at 20mph you have to get your fun when you can.
Would that have been good driving? Of course not, but now we're all forced to drive everywhere at 20mph you have to get your fun when you can.
OutInTheShed said:
cirian75 said:
I have updated my info, I forgot to say I had 90% completed my move in to the lane by the time the Volvo appeared.
Damned Spock beaming volvos down all over the place!Did you mean you failed to observe the Volvo?
Plain as day his plan was use lane 2 to overtake all of the cars in lane 1 at high speed, and then cut across the cars in lane1 in a single swoop from lane 2, across 1 lane and into the off ramp lane in one go.
He did not take into account that it is a combined on/off ramp would have cars merging into lane 1 who were not doing damn near 70 in a 30
50-50, without substantial evidence otherwise. This is a typical motorway scenario, where one car moves from L1 to L2 just aas another car is moving from L3 to L2. Avoidable by both parties
Nowadays when my SatNav says ' move to left on two Miles', I mostly do that. In heavy motorway traffic as it takes all of those 100 or so seconds to negotiate a two lane slotting in movement.( Yeas yours was urban and 30 and they were exceeding that).
Nowadays when my SatNav says ' move to left on two Miles', I mostly do that. In heavy motorway traffic as it takes all of those 100 or so seconds to negotiate a two lane slotting in movement.( Yeas yours was urban and 30 and they were exceeding that).
I hate that section of road, it's even worse on the other side trying to get on to the Mancunian way from Upper Brook Street. There is only a very short section of road with people trying to get on and people trying to get off at the next junction.
Another section that is a nightmare (although not the fault of the layout) is the M60 exit off the M602 where people drive all the way up to the actual exit in the middle lane and are then surprised when they don't get let in by the people who have been in the correct lane for the last 2 miles. They then anchor up in the live lane and sit there with their indicator on causing absolute mayhem.
Another section that is a nightmare (although not the fault of the layout) is the M60 exit off the M602 where people drive all the way up to the actual exit in the middle lane and are then surprised when they don't get let in by the people who have been in the correct lane for the last 2 miles. They then anchor up in the live lane and sit there with their indicator on causing absolute mayhem.
BORNXenon said:
I hate that section of road, it's even worse on the other side trying to get on to the Mancunian way from Upper Brook Street. There is only a very short section of road with people trying to get on and people trying to get off at the next junction.
.
Yup, he knows the exact issue, if you blast down in lane 2 of this raised urban dual carriageway over taking cars in lane 1 approaching this junction you can't see the cars joining if your going to sweep over..
It used to be a 50 with people doing 60 to 70, but it became a 30 several years ago.
48k said:
Would you like everybody to say it's the the guys fault to make you feel better?
Nah, in reality my opinion the blame the case of collision would have been 30/70.Next time if there's an unusually big gap like today, I'm going to double it before moving out, and assume there's someone who's go miffed with people sticking to 30 in lane 1, so is doing 50 to 70 in lane 2 planning a swoop onto the off ramp.
I'll go with 100% your fault, unless you can prove the Volvo was speeding (which is going to be difficult if you didn't even see it until very late on). Unfortunately for you in this case, it is 100% the responsibility of a driver merging onto a road, to check it is clear. Even if that road is has 2 lanes, and someone pulls from lane 2 to 1 just at the wrong time for you.
I know exactly the junction you’re talking of. You’ve joined heading in the direction of Ancoats and need to get out of lane 1 asap to join the main carriageway otherwise you’re heading off towards London Road.
I usually stay in the slip road until I’m full established and can see the cars in the offside lane in my door mirror prior to changing lane. I wouldn’t have expected any car in lane three to swoop in like you’ve described.
I usually stay in the slip road until I’m full established and can see the cars in the offside lane in my door mirror prior to changing lane. I wouldn’t have expected any car in lane three to swoop in like you’ve described.
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