Am I towing legally

[Ianmeister]

Hi

I have read through all the posts on here and still can't work out if I am legal or not!!

I understand all of the laws regarding licences and sadly mine falls the wrong side of Jan 97 (only just)

My question is around the max towing weight. I plan to get a big old Volvo to tow my BMW E30 (1100kg) to and from the track. The max tow weight of the Volvo is 1800kg. I plan to use a wessex trailer (400kg) as I need a narrow one. Therefore the tow weight is 1500kg which is ok.

However, the max tow weight of the trailer is 2000kg and I have read in other posts on here that because the trailer is CAPABLE of towing 2000kg I am towing illegally. Is this really the case because it is seen as intent??

All I wanted to do was tow my car to and from the track and it's turning into a right pain to sort out

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - Thanks!

[falcemob]

Ianmeister said:

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - Thanks!

Get a big 4X4

[Davel]

The car manual will tell you what weight you can legally tow on either a braked or unbraked trailer.

Then take the car to a weighbridge, on the trailer, and see what weight the combination are.

Get a weigh ticket so that, if you are ever stopped, you can use it to show that you are legit.

[Ianmeister]

falcemob said:

Get a big 4X4

Thats a good idea but then the total gross weight will be more than 3.5 tonnes and I will need to take a test and upgrade my license as I took it after Jan 1997, albeit only a few months.

[Ianmeister]

Davel said:

Get a weigh ticket so that, if you are ever stopped, you can use it to show that you are legit.

Good idea - that would hopefully show them I am conscious of the load I am carrying - but what about the fact that the trailer can actually carry more than the Beemer, up to 2000kg

[filmidget]

Davel said:

The car manual will tell you what weight you can legally tow on either a braked or unbraked trailer. Then take the car to a weighbridge, on the trailer, and see what weight the combination are. Get a weigh ticket so that, if you are ever stopped, you can use it to show that you are legit.

But... I think a PHer was stopped in a similar situation, and because the trailer was CAPABLE of carrying a vehicle which would put the trailer & carried vehicle total OVER the towing vehicles allowable limit, a prosecution ensued.

Also - but of a hijack - I have looked on my car trailer (good condition, but quite old and of indeterminate origin), and I can't see a plated weight limit on it - should I not be using the trailer at all?

Cheers, Phil

[kevinday]

filmidget said:

But... I think a PHer was stopped in a similar situation, and because the trailer was CAPABLE of carrying a vehicle which would put the trailer & carried vehicle total OVER the towing vehicles allowable limit, a prosecution ensued. Cheers, Phil

I remember that, however I thought at the time he was not telling us something. There is no way for the police to prove 'intent' therefore the weight at the time of stopping should be what is important.

[Ianmeister]

kevinday said:

filmidget said: But... I think a PHer was stopped in a similar situation, and because the trailer was CAPABLE of carrying a vehicle which would put the trailer & carried vehicle total OVER the towing vehicles allowable limit, a prosecution ensued. Cheers, Phil I remember that, however I thought at the time he was not telling us something. There is no way for the police to prove 'intent' therefore the weight at the time of stopping should be what is important.

Yes I thought that too, and rememmber reading that he said he was transporting for a friend which brought in other issues.

I agree with you and believe there is no way for the Police to prove intent (especially if I'm driving to a meeting with my car), but it appears to be a grey issue unless someone can help clear it up.

[Ianmeister]

filmidget said:

Also - but of a hijack - I have looked on my car trailer (good condition, but quite old and of indeterminate origin), and I can't see a plated weight limit on it - should I not be using the trailer at all? Cheers, Phil

From what I have been reading, may not be a good idea, not sure what you could do though?

[Davel]

The car towing should say, in its manual, the maximim permissible towing weight using either a braked or unbraked trailer.

The car to be towed should be put on the trailer and towed to a weighbridge.

Leave the trailer, laden with race car, on the bridge and that will show the weight of the load to be towed.

You can then see whether or not you are within the legal towing weight of the road car.

I know what I'm trying to explain - I'm just not convinced that I'm explaining it correctly.

[Ianmeister]

Davel said:

The car towing should say, in its manual, the maximim permissible towing weight using either a braked or unbraked trailer. The car to be towed should be put on the trailer and towed to a weighbridge. Leave the trailer, laden with race car, on the bridge and that will show the weight of the load to be towed. You can then see whether or not you are within the legal towing weight of the road car. I know what I'm trying to explain - I'm just not convinced that I'm explaining it correctly.

Thanks - I understand everything you are saying and agree, I am just a little unsure of this max load thing, but ONLY because I read it in another post.

I think I will do as you say above. From what I have read today, half of the cars towing on the road are illegal!

[falcemob]

Ianmeister said:

Davel said: The car towing should say, in its manual, the maximim permissible towing weight using either a braked or unbraked trailer. The car to be towed should be put on the trailer and towed to a weighbridge. Leave the trailer, laden with race car, on the bridge and that will show the weight of the load to be towed. You can then see whether or not you are within the legal towing weight of the road car. I know what I'm trying to explain - I'm just not convinced that I'm explaining it correctly. Thanks - I understand everything you are saying and agree, I am just a little unsure of this max load thing, but ONLY because I read it in another post. I think I will do as you say above. From what I have read today, half of the cars towing on the road are illegal!

Ian, I understand what you are saying about the trailer being capable of carrying 1600kg making it 2000kg gross, thus overloading a Volvo.
It would be the same scenario with a truck. A 32 ton gross train weight truck may only weigh 7tons empty, but that still doesn't allow you to drive it on a car licence.
As for the gross train weight of a 4X4 and trailer being over 3.5 tons, I'm not sure that would affect you unless you are carrying goods for hire an reward, anyway you will be taking a test to tow the trailer won't you?

[Ianmeister]

falcemob said:

Ian, I understand what you are saying about the trailer being capable of carrying 1600kg making it 2000kg gross, thus overloading a Volvo. It would be the same scenario with a truck. A 32 ton gross train weight truck may only weigh 7tons empty, but that still doesn't allow you to drive it on a car licence.

Good point, can someone confirm either way?

[IaHa]

Hi Ian,

I take it you have category B driving licence.

From Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999;

Category B

Motor vehicles, other than vehicles included in category A, F, K or P, having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes and not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat, including:

(i) a combination of such a vehicle and a trailer where the trailer has a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilogrammes, and
(ii) a combination of such a vehicle and a trailer where the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle.

Option (i) is out due to the MAM of the trailer, and Option (ii) is out both because of the combination MAM and because the MAM of the trailer exceeds the U/W of the towing vehicle.

So it looks like your stuck on one or two of these restrictions Ian, looks like a B+E test is required.

[Ianmeister]

IaHa said:

Hi Ian, I take it you have category B driving licence. From Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999; Category B Motor vehicles, other than vehicles included in category A, F, K or P, having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes and not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat, including: (i) a combination of such a vehicle and a trailer where the trailer has a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilogrammes, and (ii) a combination of such a vehicle and a trailer where the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle. Option (i) is out due to the MAM of the trailer, and Option (ii) is out both because of the combination MAM and because the MAM of the trailer exceeds the U/W of the towing vehicle. So it looks like your stuck on one or two of these restrictions Ian, looks like a B+E test is required.

Thank you IaHa - I think I understand now. So it looks like I will have to do the test as the combination exceeds 3.5 tonnes.

But also the MAM of the trailer exceeds that of the car, so I need a bigger car or smaller trailer. I wonder how many people on the road fall foul of this law?

[cptsideways]

Delete any markings from the trailer that says its 2000kg, or stick a plate on that says its a few more than intend to use

That way your within the law.

My old 240 2.0l managed "just" with an 1800kg all up weight.

[filmidget]

Slightly O/T, but you were on about Volvos:

And by the way my tow car is a '89 Volvo 740 estate... 2.3 CARB! Only about 115bhp (but decent torque) and has no trouble pulling Sciroccos about.

Had a 760 turbo saloon before the Mrs decided an estate would be more useful - first time I towed with that I thought the clutch was slipping when I heard the revs increase so fast, then realise the speedo was going up to match

Never thought I would say it but I like my Volvos (especially at £450 and £350 respectively)

[Dwight VanDriver]

Law on this subject is an absolute nightmare. If anyone has access to Con and Use Regs try reading to sort out. You are up and down more times than a bungee jumper and become as dizzy. I've spent a couple of hours trying to make sense and whilst getting a gist have failed miserably to come up with exact law.

Suggestion Ian:

With what information you can glean from towing vehicle handbook and details from VIN plate, together with:
Unladen weight of towing vehicle.
Unladen weight of trailer,
number of axles,
number of tyres of each axle
Plated weights if plate fitted.
No brakes or overrun brakes
Weight of load to be carried.

then either speak to or EMail VOSA for a definative answer for they are the so called experts in this field.

dvd

[IaHa]

Dwight VanDriver said:

Law on this subject is an absolute nightmare. If anyone has access to Con and Use Regs try reading to sort out. You are up and down more times than a bungee jumper and become as dizzy. I've spent a couple of hours trying to make sense and whilst getting a gist have failed miserably to come up with exact law. Suggestion Ian: With what information you can glean from towing vehicle handbook and details from VIN plate, together with: Unladen weight of towing vehicle. Unladen weight of trailer, number of axles, number of tyres of each axle Plated weights if plate fitted. No brakes or overrun brakes Weight of load to be carried. then either speak to or EMail VOSA for a definative answer for they are the so called experts in this field. dvd

I'm never particularly sure if one works with MAM or actual weight of trailer + load in certain circs. eg tranny + trailer for tacho regs.
It's one I can never get completely clear in my head, so I offer discretion based on ignorance until I'm comfortable with the offence.